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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmaniac View Post
    Actually, the problem is as simple as that.

    I teach at a school that doesn't officially begin until 8:45. That's a relatively late starting time.

    And I still have plenty of the same old kids who end up tired and dragging, day in and day out. It's no mystery as to why they are tired... they aren't going to bed at a "good" hour.

    I disagree... many things are simple, but we try to leap past the simple solution/explanation for various reasons and proceed to make life complicated.

    In the present case, we deem it "unrealistic" (or whatever) for kids to go to bed early... and only after we've skipped past this simple cause and solution to the problem, do things start getting 'complicated.'
    Great points.

    High schoolers aren't going to bed because they wait for night time to have fun. They are watching late night TV. They are shooting heroin and drinking. They are playing video games. They are trying to delay the next days school day because it's so mind numbingly wasteful. If their friends weren't there most of them wouldn't see a real reason to go in the first place, so why get ready for it with a good night's sleep? "School has to suck" isn't an acceptable answer. Neither is "school doesn't suck for 10% of kids taking advantage of it."

  2. #77
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    Sep 2003
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    Indoctrination Station
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesnut View Post
    Great points.

    High schoolers aren't going to bed because they wait for night time to have fun. They are watching late night TV. They are shooting heroin and drinking. They are playing video games. They are trying to delay the next days school day because it's so mind numbingly wasteful. If their friends weren't there most of them wouldn't see a real reason to go in the first place, so why get ready for it with a good night's sleep? "School has to suck" isn't an acceptable answer. Neither is "school doesn't suck for 10% of kids taking advantage of it."
    We'd be a lot worse off if only 10% of school children took advantage of what they learned in school. Get real.

    We get it. You hate school as you hate pretty much all institutions. You have a very negative view about many things in life and a simplistic, romanticized, idealistic view how how just about everything should be. Typical libertarian.
    "Stop doing the wrong things. Stop promoting competition and choice as answers to the very inequality that was created by competition and choice."
    ~ Diane Ravitch, Reign of Error

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Alpharetta Ga.
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    12,192
    I over-hear many a conversation... and the #1 reason that kids tend to stay up late is because they are texting and/or snap-chatting and/or facebooking with their friends.

    There are more legitimate reasons, as well... such as working a PT job.
    Although it is said that our faith concerns matters which are obscure, the reasons for embracing the faith are not obscure but on the contrary are clearer than any natural light.
    -Descartes

  4. #79
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    Apr 2003
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    Philly
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForWhoForWhat? View Post
    We'd be a lot worse off if only 10% of school children took advantage of what they learned in school. Get real.

    We get it. You hate school as you hate pretty much all institutions. You have a very negative view about many things in life and a simplistic, romanticized, idealistic view how how just about everything should be. Typical libertarian.
    I'm very positive about life. I think it's a shame others don't agree. So much time and energy is wasted in institutions, supporting institutions, kowtowing to institutions, being fearful of institutions, instead of living. There's a lot of positive things going on in schools too. But those things aren't mandated from above, they are organized by students with student participants and have nothing to do with checking off boxes towards completion of whatever is deemed important that particular day or year or decade.

  5. #80
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    Mar 2004
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    38,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Gmaniac View Post
    Actually, the problem is as simple as that.

    I teach at a school that doesn't officially begin until 8:45. That's a relatively late starting time.

    And I still have plenty of the same old kids who end up tired and dragging, day in and day out. It's no mystery as to why they are tired... they aren't going to bed at a "good" hour.

    I disagree... many things are simple, but we try to leap past the simple solution/explanation for various reasons and proceed to make life complicated.

    In the present case, we deem it "unrealistic" (or whatever) for kids to go to bed early... and only after we've skipped past this simple cause and solution to the problem, do things start getting 'complicated.'
    As a parent of one kid, its as simple as put them to bed earlier. In terms of planning how one or more entire school districts will operate, its most definitely not that simple. Unless you are going to be the one in charge of going door to door every night at 9 o clock.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    38,447
    Quote Originally Posted by ForWhoForWhat? View Post
    We'd be a lot worse off if only 10% of school children took advantage of what they learned in school. Get real.

    We get it. You hate school as you hate pretty much all institutions. You have a very negative view about many things in life and a simplistic, romanticized, idealistic view how how just about everything should be. Typical libertarian.
    Bravo good sir
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

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