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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmaniac View Post
    If you weren't talking about watching the original Cosmos back in junior high, and instead you were talking about science in general as I originally supposed... then your reading comprehension is off.

    My comment was specific to the television show Cosmos. You went on to talk about science in general.
    And you couldn't keep up. Kinda symbolic, ain't it?
    “I just adore children. Especially grown ones.”-- George Gould Strong, by way of Doug Wright, Scott Frankel, and Michael Korie, Grey Gardens

  2. #32
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    And let's review. This is how our conversation went; the words in parenthesis are the words you omitted when you posted your sentence fragment--and anyone with even a nodding acquaintance with grammar and sentence structure will tell you the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim in NYC View Post
    The difference is that science is real.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gmaniac View Post
    (Science is r)eal boring, if you watch Cosmos.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim in NYC View Post
    <shrug> I was saying the same things about it when I was in junior high school.

    I grew up.
    "Science" remained the noun from your post to mine. If that's not what you meant to say, then you need to keep the snarky remarks up your ass and express yourself more clearly. If you can't express yourself more clearly than you do...well, that's not tremendously surprising.
    “I just adore children. Especially grown ones.”-- George Gould Strong, by way of Doug Wright, Scott Frankel, and Michael Korie, Grey Gardens

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breed View Post
    Yeah, I agree with your opinion. I've tried sitting through 2 airings of Cosmos, but couldn't do it either time.

    I prefer Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman. Its not nearly as preachy.
    It is fairly preachy about science/evolution vs creation/geocentrism, and short on technical details. But I do like the concepts he espouses about our place in the Universe.
    "What's so funny about peace , love and understanding?" - Elvis Costello

  4. #34
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    I'm actually kind of surprised that you don't know what an "if" clause means, Jim. I expect certain things out of you... but ignorance about the English language isn't one of them.

    That being said: this is such a minor thing to bicker over. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree and dropping it.
    Although it is said that our faith concerns matters which are obscure, the reasons for embracing the faith are not obscure but on the contrary are clearer than any natural light.
    -Descartes

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmaniac View Post
    I'm actually kind of surprised that you don't know what an "if" clause means, Jim. I expect certain things out of you... but ignorance about the English language isn't one of them.

    That being said: this is such a minor thing to bicker over. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree and dropping it.
    I'm not. Here's what your sentence is, with the "if" clause leading instead of following:

    "If you watch Cosmos, real boring."

    If you're going to tell me that "boring" is meant to modify "Cosmos", then I'm sending you back to fourth grade.

    But by all means, let's bicker over something major instead. For example, we can bicker over the fact that NDT is making creationists and religion addicts look damned foolish.
    “I just adore children. Especially grown ones.”-- George Gould Strong, by way of Doug Wright, Scott Frankel, and Michael Korie, Grey Gardens

  6. #36
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    Ice apparently went to the "Flyerhawk school of thread titling". OUTRAGE!!!!!!
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
    -Kurt Vonnegut "Mother Night"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmaniac View Post
    Even by your own link, my use of the word "majority" is accurate.

    By I wasn't talking about America specifically or even Christianity specifically. That being said: my main support for the statement (within Christianity at least) is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church, which is the largest branch of Christianity.
    That doesn't mean all Catholics believe it.

    My link shows that almost half of ALL Americans are believers that God created earth more or less as-is within the past 10,000 years.

    Wouldn't you say that's a YEC'er?

    And if so, wouldn't it require the rest of the country (that didn't believe such) to be Catholic/atheist/etc in order for your assertion to be true?
    Last edited by ThankGod4Walsh; 04-02-2014 at 08:35 PM.
    “Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you. Never apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time. If you’re right and you know it, speak your mind. Speak your mind. Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.” -Gandhi

    Rational skepticism is not the same thing as being a conspiracy theorist.

    Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream. -Muggeridge

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThankGod4Walsh View Post
    My link shows that almost half of ALL Americans are believers that God created earth more or less as-is within the past 10,000 years.
    Actually, the question was about creating humans, and it did not mention the Earth. It's possible for some of the 46% to believe that the Earth has existed for millions of years, but that humans were created within the last 10,000 years and did not evolve. I'm still shocked that the number rejecting evolution is so high.

  9. #39
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    It takes a leap of faith.
    Occupying the handicap bathroom stall

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustus View Post
    Actually, the question was about creating humans, and it did not mention the Earth. It's possible for some of the 46% to believe that the Earth has existed for millions of years, but that humans were created within the last 10,000 years and did not evolve. I'm still shocked that the number rejecting evolution is so high.
    That's a fair point.

    Looking for more specific wording across various polls, best I could find was this question-

    God created the universe, the earth, the sun, moon, stars, plants, animals, and the first two people within the past 10 000 years.
    To which 39% said true, and 50% said false.

    But again, this was not a poll restricted to Christians. If you look at another poll-

    Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. Most of the rest, 13 percent, have no religion. That leaves just 4 percent as adherents of all non-Christian religions combined — Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and a smattering of individual mentions.

    That's quite different from the world at large: Fifty-two percent of the world's population is non-Christian, compared to 4 percent in the United States; and one-third is Christian, compared to 83 percent in the United States. (These are rough comparisons, because the world figures, reported by the Encyclopedia Britannica, are for the full population, while the U.S. figures are among adults only.)

    This poll used an open-ended question to gauge religious affiliation: "What if anything is your religion?" Most of the 50 affiliations cited are Christian denominations, ranging from the Assembly of God to the United Church of Christ. Added up they show that 53 percent of Americans are Protestants, 22 percent Catholics and 8 percent other Christians, such as Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses.
    So again, just because it's the Catholic church's position that the earth can be super-old, I don't see how 22% of American Christians can somehow overwhelm the 53% that likely don't give much concern to the Catholic church's position on the subject. And that's assuming that every Catholic believes in a super-old earth.

    And given poll results listed earlier, it's a highly specious and dubious claim that "most" Christians believe in an old earth.

    That's all I'm saying.

    Not that an appeal to majority is worth a crap to begin with. :P

    http://ncse.com/rncse/30/3/americans...volution-year-

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90356
    “Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you. Never apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time. If you’re right and you know it, speak your mind. Speak your mind. Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.” -Gandhi

    Rational skepticism is not the same thing as being a conspiracy theorist.

    Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream. -Muggeridge

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustus View Post
    Actually, the question was about creating humans, and it did not mention the Earth. It's possible for some of the 46% to believe that the Earth has existed for millions of years, but that humans were created within the last 10,000 years and did not evolve. I'm still shocked that the number rejecting evolution is so high.
    I wonder if it's because for the most part it doesn't really affect their daily life. So whether man evolved or was created by God is pretty irrelevant to most peoples day to day lives. So they're free to think what they want without really much impact. There's not much real cost one way or the other.

    If they reject evolution and want to believe in god based creation does it really matter? The same could be said for believing in evolution. It's not going to change the issues of paying the mortgage, going to work etc.

    In fact there's probably more practical reason to believe in god if only because having a sense of religion is good for the kids.

    It's a theory.
    Last edited by PatsFan2003; 04-02-2014 at 10:07 PM.

  12. #42
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    I'd like to see the difference between

    a) an anonymous poll asking former visitors to science museums by phone if they believe the Genesis creation story is literally true, and

    b) an in-person poll conducted in front of science museums asking people directly if they believe the Genesis creation story is literally true

    I'm thinking at least a 10% difference in responses, even though it's the same question.
    “Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you. Never apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time. If you’re right and you know it, speak your mind. Speak your mind. Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.” -Gandhi

    Rational skepticism is not the same thing as being a conspiracy theorist.

    Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream. -Muggeridge

  13. #43
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    So what did Cosmos have to say about the start of the Big Bang? There was nothing and then there was something? LOL God?
    "You don't understand, there was shrinkage."

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah View Post
    So what did Cosmos have to say about the start of the Big Bang? There was nothing and then there was something? LOL God?
    Tyson freely admits that they don't know, and that there is no shame in admitting they don't know. They don't exactly subscribe to "there was nothing" then there was something concept, but they don't know what the Universe looked like or was specifically composed of or what it was doing before the big bang.
    "What's so funny about peace , love and understanding?" - Elvis Costello

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFan2003 View Post
    I wonder if it's because for the most part it doesn't really affect their daily life. So whether man evolved or was created by God is pretty irrelevant to most peoples day to day lives. So they're free to think what they want without really much impact. There's not much real cost one way or the other.

    If they reject evolution and want to believe in god based creation does it really matter? The same could be said for believing in evolution. It's not going to change the issues of paying the mortgage, going to work etc.

    In fact there's probably more practical reason to believe in god if only because having a sense of religion is good for the kids.

    It's a theory.
    Are you saying what you proposed is a theory?

    If so, I agree with you.
    "Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed but rather evolved." - Francis Crick.

    "For since the creation of the world, God's invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." - Romans 1:20

    "It's one reason I hate reading what Tyke writes. It just annoys the hell out of me." - Big Pink Monkey

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