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  1. #91
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    FYI, Graham played 45% of his snaps in the slot and 22% of his snaps split out wide.

    Yeah...that sounds like a TE....

    ...gimme a break
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
    Article 10, Section 2

    "a one year NFL Player Contract for (A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which the Franchise Player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year"
    This is literally like the one thing the NFLPA did right in their last CBA.

    Besides that they got totally crushed.

    Hopefully the Saints lose and eventually we get rid of that embarrassment of a system as a whole.
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

    "Just because you're the lone voice in the wilderness, it doesn't mean you're wrong."
    - Ghandi

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    This is literally like the one thing the NFLPA did right in their last CBA.

    Besides that they got totally crushed.

    Hopefully the Saints lose and eventually we get rid of that embarrassment of a system as a whole.
    We disagree on the legitimacy of the FT, but we agree on the stupidity of the NFLPA allowing it to exist in the first place. It makes no sense from the players' perspective.

    I'd argue the rookie wage scale was something else they did "right." Unproven rookies having the biggest contracts was just silly. Lowering the years for RFA status was also good.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
    Article 10, Section 2

    "a one year NFL Player Contract for (A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which the Franchise Player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year"
    Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

    Sounds like Graham has an air tight case.
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulu Bak View Post
    We disagree on the legitimacy of the FT, but we agree on the stupidity of the NFLPA allowing it to exist in the first place. It makes no sense from the players' perspective.

    I'd argue the rookie wage scale was something else they did "right." Unproven rookies having the biggest contracts was just silly. Lowering the years for RFA status was also good.
    It's a horrible mechanism.

    It's a sham, another BS tactic that fans have ignorantly believes is a part of "competitive balance" rather than what it REALLY is:

    cost containment.
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

    "Just because you're the lone voice in the wilderness, it doesn't mean you're wrong."
    - Ghandi

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breed View Post
    Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

    Sounds like Graham has an air tight case.
    "the position he participated" does not equate to where the planed up on the field.. He can be a TE and line up in backfield, or even at QB. His position still is "TE".

    (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below)




    Section 7.
    Salary Information:
    (a)
    No later than February 1 of each League Year during the term of this
    Agreement, the NFL shall compile and disclose to the NFLPA a list of each of the five
    and ten largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the following positions which shall be
    utilized for calculating the average Prior Year Salaries of players at the positions of Fran-
    chise Players and Transition Players: Quarterback, Running Back, Wide Receiver, Tight
    End, Offensive Line, Defensive End, Interior Defensive Line, Linebacker, Cornerback,
    Safety, and Kicker/Punter.

    Not the spot he lined up at on the field but "position"...Jimmy Grahams position is TE. To my knowledge the saints have never submitted a roster update with his position listed as a WR
    Last edited by NEpats_fan; 03-10-2014 at 09:21 PM.
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEpats_fan View Post
    "the position he participated" does not equate to where he lined up. He can be a TE and line up in backfield, or even at QB. His position still is "TE".
    I have no dog in this fight nor do I care what Graham gets paid. But I find these type of arguments usually boil down to one of two things between football fans.

    Either) Fans who hope the salaries of football players stay somewhat under control fearing that if they don't. Football will somehow become ruined like the NBA and MLB has. Or) Fans who think football players are and have been grossly underpaid and deserve more of the NFL monetary pie.
    I'm your mama, I'm your daddy
    I'm that nigga in the alley
    I'm your doctor when in need
    Want some coke, have some weed
    You know me, I'm your friend
    Your main boy, thick and thin

    I'm your pusherman
    I'm your pusherman

    Ain't I clean, bad machine
    Super cool, super mean
    Dealin' good for the Man,
    Superfly, here I stand
    Secret stash, heavy bread
    Baddest bitches in the bed

    I'm your pusherman
    I'm your pusherman
    I'm your pusherman

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breed View Post
    I have no dog in this fight nor do I care what Graham gets paid. But I find these type of arguments usually boil down to one of two things between football fans.

    Either) Fans who hope the salaries of football players stay somewhat under control fearing that if they don't. Football will somehow become ruined like the NBA and MLB has. Or) Fans who think football players are and have been grossly underpaid and deserve more of the NFL monetary pie.
    I hear you and I actually don't have "dog in this fight" either but find it curious the interpretation of this one, whereas in any other situation roster defines position when submitted to NFL.
    You can't create a position and all positions are stated clearly and have been since inception of NFL. (You don't see a position called "gunner" but there are CBs or Safties maybe even WR given that responsibility and lines up and plays the spot on kicks.
    The rules are made in such a way to accommodate "flexibility" in use of the assigned positions ie: an OL lining up at TE or in backfield, a QB splitting out wide.

    I am lucky in fact that haven't paid for tickets to a game in 7 years but I do feel for fans who love the game and want to take their families to enjoy but can't afford it. I don't think the players are getting hosed at all because when I am around some 23 year old and he gets first check and splurges on 5k rims buys his 17 month old daughter a 10K studs my first thought isn't "boy he's gonna need more money from NFL" to support his family & lifestyle.
    (For the record I have couple friends who be in NFL at one point never got big contract but live well off what they made 7 or 8 years ago as backup/special teams).
    Last edited by NEpats_fan; 03-10-2014 at 09:38 PM.
    "aahhhhh, he said nig gaaah"
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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breed View Post
    I have no dog in this fight nor do I care what Graham gets paid. But I find these type of arguments usually boil down to one of two things between football fans.

    Either) Fans who hope the salaries of football players stay somewhat under control fearing that if they don't. Football will somehow become ruined like the NBA and MLB has. Or) Fans who think football players are and have been grossly underpaid and deserve more of the NFL monetary pie.
    I find this comment fascinating when it's a fact that baseball has more parity than the NFL despite having only 66% of the amount of playoff teams.
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

    "Just because you're the lone voice in the wilderness, it doesn't mean you're wrong."
    - Ghandi

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEpats_fan View Post
    "the position he participated" does not equate to where the planed up on the field.. He can be a TE and line up in backfield, or even at QB. His position still is "TE".

    (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below)




    Section 7.
    Salary Information:
    (a)
    No later than February 1 of each League Year during the term of this
    Agreement, the NFL shall compile and disclose to the NFLPA a list of each of the five
    and ten largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the following positions which shall be
    utilized for calculating the average Prior Year Salaries of players at the positions of Fran-
    chise Players and Transition Players: Quarterback, Running Back, Wide Receiver, Tight
    End, Offensive Line, Defensive End, Interior Defensive Line, Linebacker, Cornerback,
    Safety, and Kicker/Punter.

    Not the spot he lined up at on the field but "position"...Jimmy Grahams position is TE. To my knowledge the saints have never submitted a roster update with his position listed as a WR
    How's "position" defined in the CBA?

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesnut View Post
    How's "position" defined in the CBA?
    You gotta love how they paid millions in legal fees to get this done, the word position isn't even a definition or ever subsequently defined within the document.

    The phrase "tight end" shows up once as well.
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

    "Just because you're the lone voice in the wilderness, it doesn't mean you're wrong."
    - Ghandi

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    I find this comment fascinating when it's a fact that baseball has more parity than the NFL despite having only 66% of the amount of playoff teams.
    shhhhh. baseball evil.


    I am lucky in fact that haven't paid for tickets to a game in 7 years but I do feel for fans who love the game and want to take their families to enjoy but can't afford it.
    This is relevant how?



    Still no grievance? Any word on getting a long term deal done or are they just waiting out the hectic start of FA?

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    You gotta love how they paid millions in legal fees to get this done, the word position isn't even a definition or ever subsequently defined within the document.

    The phrase "tight end" shows up once as well.
    So if something isn't given a definition in a contract, it's because the definition is already known and understood between the two parties, right?
    "My life is not easy, but it's awesome." - Steve Gleason

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
    So if something isn't given a definition in a contract, it's because the definition is already known and understood between the two parties, right?
    Not if it's an ambiguous term. And by this point I think we can agree that the two parties view the term "tight end" as an ambiguous term.

    In normal contract law (i'm not sure if collectively bargained documents are treated differently) then it would be possible to use other outside communications to prove what was meant by the term "tight end."

    I doubt those exist though as it appears the parties never really considered this issue when making the agreement.
    Last edited by The Q; 03-14-2014 at 01:28 PM.
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

    "Just because you're the lone voice in the wilderness, it doesn't mean you're wrong."
    - Ghandi

  15. #105
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    Right, but my point was that at the time the CBA was executed and up until now, there had never been any ambiguity of what constituted a tight end by either side, so there would not have been any reason for those outside communications to exist. Anybody who was a split end or a flanker was not a tight end, and vice versa. And the problem arises from the fact that now the league wants to say that is not the case...that someone who primarily lines up as a split end or a flanker can still be called a tight end, just because they say so. Doesn't matter if he's not tight, doesn't matter if he's not on the end.
    Last edited by Underdog; 03-14-2014 at 01:37 PM.
    "My life is not easy, but it's awesome." - Steve Gleason

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