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  1. #61
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    No way I would choose the GM over Harbaurgh if it was my decision.

    A GM's impact is completely over-rated IMO. Good coaches can make bad draft picks solid and solid draft choices good. A bad coach can make a good draft pick turn out poorly. When you find a coach with the track record of Harbaugh, you don't give that up. He helped completely turn around a failed QB's career (Smith) and took one of the largest draft project QB there was (Kaep) and had him leading them to a SB in year 2. And before that he helped develop the most NFL ready QB prospect the NFL has ever seen and might ever see again (Luck). This guy has the magic touch at the league's most important position.

    None of that has anything to do with the GM IMO. Not even Kaep...the guy drafted a QB with a busted throwing motion who played in a pistol in college. You could draft 100 prospects like Kaep and give them to your average HC in this league and 99 times it isn't going to work out.
    Last edited by ducky; 02-27-2014 at 06:59 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducky View Post
    No way I would choose the GM over Harbaurgh if it was my decision.

    A GM's impact is completely over-rated IMO. Good coaches can make bad draft picks solid and solid draft choices good. A bad coach can make a good draft pick turn out poorly. When you find a coach with the track record of Harbaugh, you don't give that up. He helped completely turn around a failed QB's career (Smith) and took one of the largest draft project QB there was (Kaep) and had him leading them to a SB in year 2. And before that he helped develop the most NFL ready QB prospect the NFL has ever seen and might ever see again (Luck). This guy has the magic touch at the league's most important position.

    None of that has anything to do with the GM IMO. Not even Kaep...the guy drafted a QB with a busted throwing motion who played in a pistol in college. You could draft 100 prospects like Kaep and give them to your average HC in this league and 99 times it isn't going to work out.
    Awesome post.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducky View Post
    No way I would choose the GM over Harbaurgh if it was my decision.

    A GM's impact is completely over-rated IMO. Good coaches can make bad draft picks solid and solid draft choices good. A bad coach can make a good draft pick turn out poorly. When you find a coach with the track record of Harbaugh, you don't give that up. He helped completely turn around a failed QB's career (Smith) and took one of the largest draft project QB there was (Kaep) and had him leading them to a SB in year 2. And before that he helped develop the most NFL ready QB prospect the NFL has ever seen and might ever see again (Luck). This guy has the magic touch at the league's most important position.

    None of that has anything to do with the GM IMO. Not even Kaep...the guy drafted a QB with a busted throwing motion who played in a pistol in college. You could draft 100 prospects like Kaep and give them to your average HC in this league and 99 times it isn't going to work out.
    Man, I'm the complete opposite of this thinking. I think you draft talent, WAY more than you coach it up. I also don't know that Harbaugh has a "track record". He's been the HC of one NFL team, for 3 years and he inherited a loaded roster. If he goes to Cleveland and wins or if SF has to rebuild and he wins again, then I'll be impressed. For now, I don't know if he's Barry Switzer or Jimmy Johnson.

    edit - I especially disagree with the Kap part. He might have been a bit unrefined, but much of that was overstated IMO. There were a lot of arguments as to why he was a better prospect than Cam, who went #1 but who was also similarly raw. He didn't have Harbaugh and he still worked out fine. Kap's deliver issue was overstated anyways. It was supposedly causing him a slow release, but the Sports Science on him showed he had a faster release than any prospect in that draft. Add that to a rocket arm, elite athleticism and his college production and you'll have a hard time selling me that Harbaugh was the reason for his success. I want a good coach working with any young QB, but its not going to make or break him in total and you can always find a good QB guy out there.
    Last edited by Nastradamus; 02-27-2014 at 07:28 PM.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducky View Post
    No way I would choose the GM over Harbaurgh if it was my decision.

    A GM's impact is completely over-rated IMO. Good coaches can make bad draft picks solid and solid draft choices good. A bad coach can make a good draft pick turn out poorly. When you find a coach with the track record of Harbaugh, you don't give that up. He helped completely turn around a failed QB's career (Smith) and took one of the largest draft project QB there was (Kaep) and had him leading them to a SB in year 2. And before that he helped develop the most NFL ready QB prospect the NFL has ever seen and might ever see again (Luck). This guy has the magic touch at the league's most important position.

    None of that has anything to do with the GM IMO. Not even Kaep...the guy drafted a QB with a busted throwing motion who played in a pistol in college. You could draft 100 prospects like Kaep and give them to your average HC in this league and 99 times it isn't going to work out.
    What isn't overrated however is if the reports are true, Harbaugh isn't going to get along with any gm worth a damn. His offensive coaching staff has shown zero ability to do anything with young non qbs so giving him final say on personnel is a scary proposition. The defensive guys do well but the d coaches are autonomous and seeing as how he didn't even know what he had in Richard Sherman at Stanford I'm not sure his eye for D talent is much better.

    It's Harbaughs ego that is the problem. The minute you placate it once you will have to continue to do so.
    The stand your ground law is like bleach. It works miracles for whites but it'll ruin your colors.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    Man, I'm the complete opposite of this thinking. I think you draft talent, WAY more than you coach it up. I also don't know that Harbaugh has a "track record". He's been the HC of one NFL team, for 3 years and he inherited a loaded roster. If he goes to Cleveland and wins or if SF has to rebuild and he wins again, then I'll be impressed. For now, I don't know if he's Barry Switzer or Jimmy Johnson.

    edit - I especially disagree with the Kap part. He might have been a bit unrefined, but much of that was overstated IMO. There were a lot of arguments as to why he was a better prospect than Cam, who went #1 but who was also similarly raw. He didn't have Harbaugh and he still worked out fine. Kap's deliver issue was overstated anyways. It was supposedly causing him a slow release, but the Sports Science on him showed he had a faster release than any prospect in that draft. Add that to a rocket arm, elite athleticism and his college production and you'll have a hard time selling me that Harbaugh was the reason for his success. I want a good coach working with any young QB, but its not going to make or break him in total and you can always find a good QB guy out there.
    Harbaugh has won every where he's Coached. He turned Stanford into a National power after they had been on life support for years. He's a great HC and if it's just about money, I think the Niners should be writing a check and keeping him. However if this is about seeking control of personnel as well as being the HC, I don't think it's going to happen and probably shouldn't happen. The Niner success has been predicated on the partnership of Harbaugh and Baalke. They've both played a big role and if they are unable to work together any longer it would be a real shame, at least for Niner fans.

  6. #66
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    Sure and in a perfect world I'd keep both. I'd rather have Baalke and another coach over Harbaugh with more personnel control myself. Its a ready made roster and you'll have no problem attracting the top candidates. They are apparently willing to spend as well.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    They are apparently willing to spend as well.

    John York is willing to spend???? Where is this coming from?
    Scandal is gossip made tedious by morality.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeyeJones View Post
    John York is willing to spend???? Where is this coming from?
    They paid Harbaugh and clearly offered him more than he currently makes on an extension, if not what he wants.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    They paid Harbaugh and clearly offered him more than he currently makes on an extension, if not what he wants.
    Ehhh, they paid him 30% less than Carroll got the year before and got lucky that he was still willing to go to S.F. despite their unwillingness to match Miami's offer to him.

    I'm not entirely convinced they've offered him meaningfully more on a extension. I know they say "until you win a Super Bowl", but honestly this sounds like more B.S. from John York to me. If he had won a Super Bowl it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were still low-balling him. (Jed's statement about really hoping Harbaugh won the Super Bowl so that he could get paid reeked of what's happening: I want to pay the guy but my dad won't let me).

    I'm hoping the extra revenue from the stadium will give Jed some more funds-without-dad-attached to play with, but I could also see John York claiming that extra revenue first needs to go back into the family coffers and make up for whatever profitability benchmark he had set and didn't meet while he was running the team into the ground.
    Scandal is gossip made tedious by morality.

  10. #70
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    Ummm, Carroll was signed the year after Harbaugh, Pop. I'm also not sure if it is fair to compare an owner's willingness to spend to Paul Allen.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyerhawk View Post
    Ummm, Carroll was signed the year after Harbaugh, Pop.
    Uhh, Carroll was signed in 2010, man. Harbaugh was signed in 2011. -10 fan points, Fly. ;)

    (FWIW I thought they were signed the same year until I remembered Mike Singletary thanking Pete Carroll for kicking the 9ers collective @sses).

    Quote Originally Posted by flyerhawk View Post
    I'm also not sure if it is fair to compare an owner's willingness to spend to Paul Allen.
    As an outsider I think that's fair, but it's the Al Davis problem (agents/coaches/players don't go in for the "special circumstances" stuff when price setting the way you and I might).
    Scandal is gossip made tedious by morality.

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