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  1. #16
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    Why does the OP and writer of the article think it odd that 6 of 7 people identified using a public restroom on camera would obtain a lawyer?

    Is that not a part of ensuring due process in the investigation? Short of a blood test i think the district would have trouble proving whose junk it is. Hiring a lawyer helps make sure the investigation is fair, accurate and legitimate, right?
    "Stop doing the wrong things. Stop promoting competition and choice as answers to the very inequality that was created by competition and choice."
    ~ Diane Ravitch, Reign of Error

  2. #17
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    Teachers , as educators, and in an influence position with CHILDREN , (like they are not baseball player) in my and many opinions - should be randomly drug tested. Why they fight this is ....weird.
    I promise I won't do it again

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForWhoForWhat? View Post
    Why does the OP and writer of the article think it odd that 6 of 7 people identified using a public restroom on camera would obtain a lawyer?

    ?
    Having a lawyer and having one's blood tested are not inconsistent with proving one is 'clean'. Want to have legal representation....great !!! Want to cooperate and prove one is innocent an FIND the CHILDRENS 'enemy'.... go for it. Why not HELP the police?
    I promise I won't do it again

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raid View Post
    Teachers , as educators, and in an influence position with CHILDREN , (like they are not baseball player) in my and many opinions - should be randomly drug tested. Why they fight this is ....weird.
    Well, you need to ground such a witchhunt in some sort of probable cause. Is there evidence of significant, notable if not widespread drug use by teachers in our school system? If the answer is yes, then by all means, include such a proposal in the next round of negotiations. Be sure to include coverage for classrooms for teachers while they submit their samples. Tax payers should love to approve a tax increase for this.

    And why stop at teachers? Why not bank tellers--they handle our money? CEOs--they make decisions that affect our money and children? Cops--they protect us? Lawyers--they work for the public? Judges--the ultimate guardians, we need to know for sure they are clean? Pretzel bakers and other restaurant workers--They deal in public health we need to be sure they are clean. Where does it end Raid? do you work for Quest Diagnostics or own stock in the company? They're about the only folks who would benefit from this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raid View Post
    Having a lawyer and having one's blood tested are not inconsistent with proving one is 'clean'. Want to have legal representation....great !!! Want to cooperate and prove one is innocent an FIND the CHILDRENS 'enemy'.... go for it. Why not HELP the police?
    You just said--in a very awkward way--all the teachers actions are legit. so how are they not helping?

    *I found 3 instances of random drug testing being included in teacher contract negotiations via google: Hawaii, Illinois, Seattle, all 3-5 years ago. Hardly an epidemic.
    "Stop doing the wrong things. Stop promoting competition and choice as answers to the very inequality that was created by competition and choice."
    ~ Diane Ravitch, Reign of Error

  5. #20
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    Unless there's something obviously fishy about the evidence and investigation, the union's wrong in this case.

    Anyone that was originally comfortable with providing a urine sample should still be comfortable providing one.

    It's a very strange quirk of human tribalistic nature that both highly organized and not especially organized groups constantly make the same poor choice. They reflexively circle the wagons and protect bad members within their own ranks...thereby eroding trust and increasing pressure, scrutiny, and hostility towards their group. Giving up the bad apple would be in their own best interests. Yet they insist on being counter-productive.

    Last edited by Moriarty; 02-23-2014 at 07:10 PM.
    The word "hero" is frequently abused badly. This is a real hero.

  6. #21
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    Also, does Raid have his own Internet now, and how can I find an ISP that will connect me to it?

    bathttp:
    The word "hero" is frequently abused badly. This is a real hero.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raid View Post
    Would you want a heroin addict teaching your kids?
    This happened all the time when I was a kid. It's been going on since the 400's, ya young pup.
    Gang Way!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moriarty View Post
    Unless there's something obviously fishy about the evidence and investigation, the union's wrong in this case.

    Anyone that was originally comfortable with providing a urine sample should still be comfortable providing one.

    It's a very strange quirk of human tribalistic nature that both highly organized and not especially organized groups constantly make the same poor choice. They reflexively circle the wagons and protect bad members within their own ranks...thereby eroding trust and increasing pressure, scrutiny, and hostility towards their group. Giving up the bad apple would be in their own best interests. Yet they insist on being counter-productive.

    Maybe that's because they each have something to hide any thorough investigation would discover?
    Gang Way!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moriarty View Post
    Unless there's something obviously fishy about the evidence and investigation, the union's wrong in this case.

    Anyone that was originally comfortable with providing a urine sample should still be comfortable providing one.

    It's a very strange quirk of human tribalistic nature that both highly organized and not especially organized groups constantly make the same poor choice. They reflexively circle the wagons and protect bad members within their own ranks...thereby eroding trust and increasing pressure, scrutiny, and hostility towards their group. Giving up the bad apple would be in their own best interests. Yet they insist on being counter-productive.

    On the other hand. Police have been known to zero in on targets and if/once that happens. Thing can go from apprehensive to full on totally ****ed up quick, fast and in a hurry for said target regardless if he/she is truly innocent.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moriarty View Post
    Unless there's something obviously fishy about the evidence and investigation, the union's wrong in this case.

    Anyone that was originally comfortable with providing a urine sample should still be comfortable providing one.

    It's a very strange quirk of human tribalistic nature that both highly organized and not especially organized groups constantly make the same poor choice. They reflexively circle the wagons and protect bad members within their own ranks...thereby eroding trust and increasing pressure, scrutiny, and hostility towards their group. Giving up the bad apple would be in their own best interests. Yet they insist on being counter-productive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rear Admiral View Post
    Maybe that's because they each have something to hide any thorough investigation would discover?
    I must have missed where the police and school district gave up on the investigation when the teachers enacted their right to due process. Can someone point me to the link where that was stated? I can't wait to read it. I'm gonna get my popcorn.
    "Stop doing the wrong things. Stop promoting competition and choice as answers to the very inequality that was created by competition and choice."
    ~ Diane Ravitch, Reign of Error

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raid View Post
    Teachers , as educators, and in an influence position with CHILDREN , (like they are not baseball player) in my and many opinions - should be randomly drug tested. Why they fight this is ....weird.
    Fortunately it's really easy to beat drug tests for any drug excepting marijuana.
    "There were many ways of not burdening one's conscience, of shunning responsibility, looking away, keeping mum. When the unspeakable truth of the holocaust then became known at the end of the war, all too many of us claimed that they had not known anything about it or even suspected anything."

    - Richard Von Weizsaecker

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowknifer View Post
    Fortunately it's really easy to beat drug tests for any drug excepting marijuana.

    Yeah, that's ....fortunate. ?
    I promise I won't do it again

  13. #28
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    Probably the most effective move any school has ever made in deterring students from a life of heroin use. Show them a passed out teacher in the middle of the school day.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesnut View Post
    Probably the most effective move any school has ever made in deterring students from a life of heroin use. Show them a passed out teacher in the middle of the school day.
    Good point.
    I promise I won't do it again

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