Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 45 of 45
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    30,207
    I have to agree that judging coaches based on their forays in Cleveland has proven to be bad. Look at Nick Saban and Belichick.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    27,903
    Quote Originally Posted by skinswin! View Post
    Oh yeah, just forget the previous years of Turner and Horton and base their quality of expertise on their one and only year in Cleveland.

    Players get better in the second year in the same system. Gzzzz.
    With Horton, they get better after he's gone, which works for me.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    45,800
    Quote Originally Posted by rjohmit View Post
    LOL now Weeden has apparently said he want out.

    That shouldn't be a problem.
    "Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed but rather evolved." - Francis Crick.

    "For since the creation of the world, God's invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." - Romans 1:20

    "It's one reason I hate reading what Tyke writes. It just annoys the hell out of me." - Big Pink Monkey

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    16,954
    Quote Originally Posted by skinswin! View Post
    Oh yeah, just forget the previous years of Turner and Horton and base their quality of expertise on their one and only year in Cleveland.

    Players get better in the second year in the same system. Gzzzz.
    The Browns D got WORSE under Horton...with the same players.

    The Cardinals D got BETTER after Horton left....

    And Turner did wonders for Phillip Rivers. He only took over a 14-2 team and ran it into the ground. Then suddenly he leaves and Rivers has a great season.
    Last edited by rjohmit; 02-13-2014 at 03:12 AM.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    15,476
    Quote Originally Posted by rjohmit View Post
    The Browns D got WORSE under Horton...with the same players.

    The Cardinals D got BETTER after Horton left....

    And Turner did wonders for Phillip Rivers. He only took over a 14-2 team and ran it into the ground. Then suddenly he leaves and Rivers has a great season.
    So Turner gets no credit for the success that Rivers had before a couple down seasons?

    Oh great, now that he's on my team I'm defending Norv Turner...
    "I rooted for the Russians in 1980 because they were the better team." - Twolvesguy

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    18,237
    Owner is clearly a bit of a loon. Luckily for Cleveland fans he is likely going to have to sell when he heads to jail for his idiotic moves with his other company.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    27,903
    Norv Turner & Philip Rivers? I think you are reaching a bit with that. The former has demonstrated on numerous occasions that he's not cut out to be a HC, including his stint in SD, but not sure what that has to do with him as an OC.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    16,954
    Quote Originally Posted by Xulu Bak View Post
    Norv Turner & Philip Rivers? I think you are reaching a bit with that. The former has demonstrated on numerous occasions that he's not cut out to be a HC, including his stint in SD, but not sure what that has to do with him as an OC.
    Well, outside of Dallas, he's only had a couple short stints as an OC - SD for a year, MIA for two, SF for one, CLE for one - in between his head coaching gigs. Am I missing any? So outside of Dallas (where he had maybe the most loaded offense ever), where has he been this offensive genius as OC? Seems to me he's living off his success in Dallas...20 years ago.

    As for SD and specifically Rivers, I know he was the HC there...but I have a hard time believing he wasn't involved in the offense, though admittedly to a lesser degree than if he was OC.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    27,903
    He's had an OC gig with four teams, totaling five years since leaving Dallas. He hasn't done much in those opportunities. I've said as much. He hasn't had the greatest talent to work with, which is a fair counterpoint that is often brought up, but doesn't negate the fact he hasn't had a top 10 offense as OC since his Dallas' days.

    Rivers had a bad year during Norv's last year as SDs HC, but you can't just ignore the good years Rivers had during Norv's stint. It's all or nothing. I tend to put very little credit/blame on the HC for the performance of the QB. I think it's more likely he had a bad year because of SD changing OC and losing personnel (VJax left and Gates was hurt) than anything Norv was doing.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    35,421
    Quote Originally Posted by rjohmit View Post
    The Browns D got WORSE under Horton...with the same players.

    The Cardinals D got BETTER after Horton left....

    And Turner did wonders for Phillip Rivers. He only took over a 14-2 team and ran it into the ground. Then suddenly he leaves and Rivers has a great season.
    Horton you might have a point on, though personnel was a factor in Arizona's improvement as well, especially Mathieu.

    The Turner stuff is nonsense though. Rivers has had multiple seasons like this under Turner including the #1 offense one year. They also won 3 playoff games(0 for Marty) under Norv, which was a big reason for their coaching change. He didn't run that team into the ground, they had massive personnel losses under him and still maintained a pretty solid squad. WOuldn't you say Ladanian Tomlinson,Shawne Merriman,Marcus Mcneil,Antonio Cromartie,Vincent Jackson,Darren Sproles,Nick Hardwick and Jamal Williams is a pretty significant talent drain? That's not even getting into guys like Matthews and Gates being banged up and often out or not near full strength.

    Through all of that, he had 3 winning seasons including 13 and 11 win seasons, 2 .500 seasons and one losing season(7-9) with the aforementioned 3 playoff wins. The narrative on Norv in SD is wrong, period.

    Also his final season was the only year they weren't top 5 in points scored. He had 3 top 5 defenses, ranking 7,12 and 16 in the other 3 years. Nothing about his tenure was unsuccessful except that he failed to win a SB. If you want to criticize him for that, have at it. Ran them into the ground though or living off his Dallas success as Xulu suggested? That's laughable.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  11. #41
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    27,903
    How is it laughable? Some people still talk about him as a top 5 OC, he's even been referred to such in the past couple days. What has he done in the past two decades to justify that? Like I said, it's fair to claim he hasn't had the greatest offensive talent to work with, but why isn't he getting better gigs if he's a top 5 OC? What has he done since Dallas to justify "top 5 OC?"

    BTW, Dallas' offense was still very good in '94 and '95 with Zampese as their OC.
    Last edited by Xulu Bak; 02-13-2014 at 03:48 PM.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    35,421
    Quote Originally Posted by Xulu Bak View Post
    How is it laughable? Some people still talk about him as a top 5 OC, he's even been referred to such in the past couple days. What has he done in the past two decades to justify that? Like I said, it's fair to claim he hasn't had the greatest offensive talent to work with, but why isn't he getting better gigs if he's a top 5 OC? What has he done since Dallas to justify "top 5 OC?"

    BTW, Dallas' offense was still very good in '94 and '95 with Zampese as their OC.
    As I mentioned, he had a top 5 scoring offense 5/6 years in SD(also I highly doubt Mccoy was the reason he had a better year this year, as it was more likely a healthy Matthews, 2 new OTs and Keenan Allen). Did he create them necessarily? No, but he maintained it despite bleeding pro bowlers. We'll never know if he was the reason, but I don't know what else he could have done. You want results, there's results. He had some solid offenses in Washington, but never really had a good QB. It was mostly a combination of Frerotte and aging Brad Johnson.

    He's also rarely as ever been fired as OC. He isn't getting "better gigs" because he has usually left his OC jobs to be a HC. I don't think he's had a year not in an OC or HC job in 20 years. That's pretty rare and tells me that the work he does makes people respect his abilities. The ony places he didn't have success were complete, unmitigated disasters in ever way. What he does in Minnesota will be very interestng.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  13. #43
    JMR's Avatar
    JMR is offline defender of the high life
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    next to the gold
    Posts
    11,730
    Appears Lombardi is landing on his feet.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...gland-patriots
    U MAD BRO??

  14. #44
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    16,954
    Quote Originally Posted by JMR View Post
    Appears Lombardi is landing on his feet.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...gland-patriots
    My preference would have been Baltimore but... It'll do.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    29,939
    Quote Originally Posted by JMR View Post
    Appears Lombardi is landing on his feet.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...gland-patriots
    We can only hope we don't have to hear him on TV.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  






Fantasy Football Rankings


Part of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties.