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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbelt View Post
    Didn't our bombers do most of the work obliterating the Iraqi army before we sent in the tanks?

    IIRC, their forces were just outright surrendering as the tanks were coming through, but it was due to having enough of the bombings.
    I don't recall whether the initial softening up rose to the level of "most". But in any case, the main points of strategy in Desert Storm seemed to be

    1. Ensuring that Iraq didn't have much in the way of explosives-delivery capacity left, be it tanks, plane, missiles or anything else, and therefore ...

    2. ... Iraq had no real way to resist being overrun by tanks.

    Now, for a variety of reasons, the decision was made NOT to entirely overrun Iraq with tanks. But the whole point was that we could have.

    In Gulf War 2, however, we learned of the acute difference between overrunning Iraq and running it. Both air power and tanks turned out to be much more useful for the former than the latter.
    APF doesn't come in screaming at others about how stupid they are. APF doesn't spam NST with the same tired topic 30 times a month. APF doesn't link to some kook in his mom's basement telling you how to, "Be afraid. Be very afraid" of the world falling down around you. And, when APF is proven wrong, he acknowledges he made a mistake and moves on, rather than harping about "sheeple."

    -- Cory Bonini

    Welchie summarized

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin Lombardi View Post
    there may sadly be a time in the future when we're fighting a China or Russia. If you have to go in to either of those countries and seize land, you're not going to do it with drones.
    There's no way we can seize and hold Russia or China with any number of tanks we'd realistically have and be able to transport to their borders.

    More plausible, however, is a scenario in which we inhibit the seizure of Poland or Korea or Western Ukraine, with tanks being a big part of the action on both sides.
    APF doesn't come in screaming at others about how stupid they are. APF doesn't spam NST with the same tired topic 30 times a month. APF doesn't link to some kook in his mom's basement telling you how to, "Be afraid. Be very afraid" of the world falling down around you. And, when APF is proven wrong, he acknowledges he made a mistake and moves on, rather than harping about "sheeple."

    -- Cory Bonini

    Welchie summarized

  3. #18
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    Don't make the mistake that Canada did. A few months before the Afghan War we decided that heavy tanks were a waste and a relic.
    Then we deployed to Afghanistan and lost a lot of people zipping along in APC's and LAV's to IED's and small ballistics.
    Then we deployed our old Leopard Main Battle tanks, then we decided we needed something newer and had to borrow and buy a bunch from the Germans and Dutch in a hurry.
    It might be more that Tanks are a support vehicle more than the spear but they are needed.
    Once we got the Leopard 2's out there the enemy thought twice about engaging, they were also incredibly useful for clearing a road of IEDs with their mine-sweeping capability.
    Main battle tanks are still a big decision for an enemy combatant to decide to take on as it usually means they are going to die.

  4. #19
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    “Here’s to alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.”

  5. #20
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    The tank and A-10 seem to have 9 lives.

    The politics of the DOD is a constant enemy to the troops in uniform
    As smart as the internet

    We're all Bozo's on this bus.~FST

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Grimes View Post
    DAT's are by nature gnome like
    As smart as the internet

    We're all Bozo's on this bus.~FST

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimjack View Post
    The tank and A-10 seem to have 9 lives.

    The politics of the DOD is a constant enemy to the troops in uniform
    Hmm. I would say that the A-10 continues to stay alive because of the politics of the DoD. The York plant continues to stay alive because of the politics of the pork barrel.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimjack View Post
    The tank and A-10 seem to have 9 lives.

    The politics of the DOD is a constant enemy to the troops in uniform
    I hadn't seen this yet, but I assume that means that we were unable to cut these superfluous programs? What a huge surprise....
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
    -Kurt Vonnegut "Mother Night"

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndromedaPatFan View Post
    There's no way we can seize and hold Russia or China with any number of tanks we'd realistically have and be able to transport to their borders.

    More plausible, however, is a scenario in which we inhibit the seizure of Poland or Korea or Western Ukraine, with tanks being a big part of the action on both sides.
    There are still very important situations where you want such high-quality weapons like the best tank in the world, the best fighter. To eliminate these type of weapons now because the type of war were are fighting NOW would be a big, big mistake.

    Having two divisions with these type of weapons in a country like Poland (IF the situation called for it of course) would give even a country like Russia pause.

    But there's a difference between reducing how budget plans for these type of weapons and eliminating them entirely.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandango View Post
    I hadn't seen this yet, but I assume that means that we were unable to cut these superfluous programs? What a huge surprise....
    The Abarams, A-10 and Apache attack helicopters were all designed to fight in Europe. The Russians are giving new life to these potent weapon systems.

    Heard on the TV the US doesn't have a single tank left in Germany. Guess they though the bear much more tame
    As smart as the internet

    We're all Bozo's on this bus.~FST

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