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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulu Bak View Post
    The Lions are one of the worst disciplined teams I can remember in the NFL. That's on Schwartz. Some of his gametime decisions are pretty atrocious as well. I think they could do better at HC, but ultimately, the NFL is a QB driven league, and I don't think Stafford has what it takes to take his game to the next level. Of course, the same could be said of Eli or Flacco, prior to their championship runs, and Stafford has more physical talent than either of them.
    This. Plus, I blame a good part of Stafford's poor play and mechanics on coaching as well. He's a still relatively young QB, and rather than hold him accountable for poor mechanics and decisions Schwartz seems to have treated him no differently than the DL for all those last hits. When you praise a guy for the huge play, the big hit on the QB as a defender, or the big risky throw that ends up a 30yd completion as a QB, and you don't hold him accountable for the poor decisions, you've incentivized him to make high-risk, high-reward decisions. Schwartz doesn't seem to care about the bad plays. He's never critical of penalties or poor throws. He may not encourage them, but the message this team has received is clear. Schwartz doesn't care about playing smart or disciplined. We've seen Matt's mechanics degrade the last few years, and every time Schwartz is questioned about it he says they're happy with them. I have to believe that if the coach is telling the QB there's nothing wrong then nothing is going to get better.

    It's one thing to be throwing side-armed once in awhile to fit a ball in a weird spot. Favre did that a lot. It's another when your QB is throwing without stepping into his throws half the time, and his arm mechanics even on his good throws now look like a pitcher throwing out of a 3/4 arm slot. Stafford leads the league in balls batted at the line. A bunch of those have turned into picks. Those are very often side-armed throws that allow defenders to get a hand on them. He throws stepping back and to the side rather than having good footwork and stepping into his throws. Those cause throws to be off-target. A lot of those balls that deflect off a Lions' receiver and become an interception are in part due to the fact the mechanics were poor and rather than hit the receiver in the hands or in stride the receiver is reaching back across his body in the middle of the field (a highly congested area) trying to pull in a ball that wasn't well-thrown. A personal observation I have is that I'm seeing more teams running their LB's and DL in zone against our passing attack because they know Stafford is likely to throw low balls across the middle and those become easy picks. Sean Lee killed Stafford when we played Dallas (even though we gutted the win out). Dallas could have had 2-3 more picks than they did in that game.

    Personally, I think Schwartz and Mayhew both have to go. I don't get the support for either. Even in this thread there are some Lions fans defending Mayhew, but I don't see it. Mayhew has done okay with some top10 picks, but you're supposed to do well on those. His track record on 2nd-4rd round picks is bad, and if you look at just the 2nd rounders he's atrocious. Mayhew routinely ignores injuries and behavioral flags with players. Then we wonder why they're never on the field. Titus Young, Jahvid Best, etc. It's nice to hit a late round pick once in awhile and have him pan out, but really all Mayhew has done is offset his bad results in the middle rounds. Amari Spivey for example, a guy he drafted to be a CB who ended up not cutting it at CB, moved to safety, and played but lacklusterly for a couple years when he wasn't hurt. That's not a total bust, but you drafted a guy to play CB. I'm worried we're seeing the same thing with this Slay kid now. He was hurt before the draft. Most thought the Lions reached for him, and when he hasn't been hurt he's been pretty poor in coverage when he's been on the field. He's looking like another in a long line of picks who are hurt far too much and only play because we don't have better options when he is healthy.

    I'd like to see both Schwartz and Mayhew gone. As a Lions fan I'm just fed up with the thugish behavior, the poor draft picks, the constant stupid penalties, and shooting ourselves in the foot. The "genius" of the Lions isn't that they lose a lot. It's that they give fans hope enough we stick around before they find new and heart-wrenching ways to destroy us year after year. It's that they have talent and find ways to be just good enough we think we can still win for 58 minutes of a game. Then with under 2 minutes to go and a lead they commit two penalties that keep the opponent's drive alive. They rush 4 on 3rd and 15 against an injured QB and give him all day to find an open receiver, and suddenly we lose in the final seconds. The season follows the same path. They win enough they should be in the playoffs, but they find a way to lose a couple games they shouldn't, and we come up a game or two short. I can't imagine what it must like to be a Packers or Steelers fan. Knowing that even if your team has a bad year they're still going to commit few penalties and be pretty well coached. That your front office will draft well and find guys that even if they aren't flashy can contribute. To know that if you lose it will be because you were out-played, not because you committed 9 penalties for over 100 yards.
    Last edited by Dave; 12-19-2013 at 07:08 PM.
    The cake is a lie. I'm pretty sure the numbers in the pie chart are made up too.

  2. #32
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    I think you're pretty out of your mind on Mayhew. His record isn't perfect, but he also might be executive of the year for this past offseason. Quin and Bush have worked out very well, he seems to have hit on the guys he kept like Levy and Delmas, he had a strong draft and signed two productive UDFAs in Fauria and Waddle. The weirdest part of the anti-Mayhew thing is that most Lions fans who rips us seem to think we are underachieing due to being extremely talented. Talk about having your cake and eating it too. I mean, Jimmy Johnson called us the most talented roster in the NFL and we were 0-16 before Mayhew took over.

    Stafford had a rough 5 game stretch, but was it the coaching that had him where he was after 9 games too? Throwing few picks, a lot of TDs and having us winning games?

    We have some penalties obviously, but we were 9th and 16th the last 2 years in penalties. Its not great, but people act like we've been #1 by a large margin. Seattle and Denver have more this year for example, and KC isn't far behind. Would we be calling for Reid,Fox or Carroll's head right now?

    This team is not above criticism, but I think you need to keep things in context. Especially if they end up winning the division, which they still have about a 50/50 shot at. While I'm pissed, we are a bizarre calf tweak/snow storm and a 61 yard FG from being in the driver's seat.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  3. #33
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    Also I don't really like some of the reasoning that you and others have used to rip Mayhew's picks. Titus,Best and Broyles all didn't work out. If you want to throw some criticism at Mayhew, so be it. That said, I would not want us to never draft another guy who tore his ACL in college, had a concussion in college or had some off field troubles. Especially in the 2nd round(btw 44% of these picks hit fwiw). Even after missing on Titus, I would have been quite happy if we drafted Janorris Jenkins or Tyrann Mathieu, or drafted Rob Gronkowski(dropped due to health), or traded for Josh Gordon etc. If they had had issues and been terrible, I would have had more issues, but all 3 of the listed guys showed the ability to be true starting caliber players in this league. I give Mayhew at least a little props in terms of identifying talent there.

    Overall, he's found about 11 starters(12 if you count a punter), a few borderlines and a handful of backup types in 5 drafts. Most GMs say they hope to hit on about 3 starters per draft. He's a little light there, but he's also a plus in terms of trades and free agents IMO
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  4. #34
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    Schwartz is one of the worst HC's in football, and the lack of discipline reflects that. Stafford is a good talent, but his lack of fundamentals are comical at best. In a QB-driven league, when you got a guy who is at the fore when it comes to attempts, but nowhere near elite levels when it comes to actual play, you get what the Lions are....a .500 type team. I keep hearing about the awesome talent Detroit has, but outside the defensive front, and Calvin Johnson, there doesn't seem much else to me.

  5. #35
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    The wide nine scheme on defense is also fundamentally suspect.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by LASam View Post
    Nas,

    I mean it has no relevance to how he's playing right now. Meaning it's great that he played well earlier, but it has no bearing on how he's playing right now which is poorly too often. Not every int is his fault, but there's also many he throws that don't get picked that probably should have. CJ had a bad game but Stafford can't be throwing 3 picks in a game of that importance either.
    I agree... You can't make excuses for Stafford at this juncture of the season... This is where the money is made and he's failing... For every INT that's not his fault, CJ more than makes up for TD's that Stafford didn't deserve to get in his stat sheet too...

    Problem is, Stafford is a 3 and out or all or nothing QB it seems... Mark McGwire'ish... It's either going to be a HR or a strikeout... He just doesn't move the chains efficiently enough... I'd hate to see what he'd be like if he didn't have Calvin Johnson to throw to...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by onionjuice View Post
    I think the coach is the problem as mentioned above but if the lions decide to let Mayhew go I would sure welcome him back in DC as the GM.
    I don't know what to make of Mayhew.

    At first his drafts seemed good... then after a few miles on the tread the shine came off... (Javid Best, Titus Young, Mikel LeShoure, Ryan Broyals...) then this year his draft class has been simply outstanding.
    A Drinking Team with a Cycling Problem

  8. #38
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    I wouldn't be sad to see Schwartz go, but he's not the only problem.

    Stafford has been a turnover machine but the wide recievers (including Calvin) need to shoulder a lot of that burden as well. I can't tell you how many passes have went off their hands and into those of a defender. I'd guess half a dozen. Maybe more.

    I'm certain we still lead the league in dropped passes.

    I think the best thing that *might* come of firing Schwartz would just be to give our reputation a cleaner slate. It's obvious that the officials (and the league jack-hole that assigns fines) are eating up the 'bad boy' reputation under Schwartz. Every week there seems to be a few calls that leave the broadcast crew scratching there head wondering "How was that a penalty?... I don't see it" or "Wow, it looked like some pretty blatant defensive holding in the end zone. That looked like a flag to me (against the opposing team)".
    A Drinking Team with a Cycling Problem

  9. #39
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    I guess I put the WR situation on Mayhew. His WR draft picks have all busted. Young, Broyles, etc. Durham is a walk-on getting major minutes because we have nobody else. Burleson broke his arm but wasn't supposed to be a big contributor this year until everyone else dropped off the map.

    When you waste as many draft picks as Mayhew has wasted on WR's, and you have nothing to show for it, it's on the GM. The RB situation is in some ways similar. Bush and Bell are better as a tandem than we've had in years, but Bell was a street free agent who suddenly got good and Bush was a FA we had to go out and spend pretty heavily to get rather than get help at another position. We spent several 1st/2nd round picks on RB's who aren't contributing now. I don't expect a GM to hit on every pick, but outside of top10 picks Mayhew seems to be struggling more than not.
    The cake is a lie. I'm pretty sure the numbers in the pie chart are made up too.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cryin Lion View Post
    I don't know what to make of Mayhew.

    At first his drafts seemed good... then after a few miles on the tread the shine came off... (Javid Best, Titus Young, Mikel LeShoure, Ryan Broyals...) then this year his draft class has been simply outstanding.
    Look at those guys. Every single one of them had MAJOR red flags. The fact that Best is retired because of concussions, Broyles has knee issues and that Young is a moron isn't the least bit surprising. The guy has taken way too many risks with way too many early draft picks.

    He is a home run hitter who still has yet to hit one out of the park.

    ...

    As far as Stafford's INT's: Duh.

    When you ask a QB to throw as much as he is asked to throw and give him the worst running game in pro football over the last 3 years, there are going to be INT's.

    IMO the coaching staff needs to go before the personel dept....but a complete house cleaning where both groups are cleared completely out would do the lions some good IMO.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cryin Lion View Post
    Stafford has been a turnover machine .
    Stafford turns the ball over exactly how much any QB in that offense should. You can't ask a QB to pass as much as the lion's have asked Stafford to pass with no threat of a running game and you have to expect a ton of INT's.

    Last 3 seasons:
    Stafford: 1949 attempts 50 INT's.
    Brees: 1902 attempts 43 INT's.

    In other words Stafford has thrown 1 extra pick every 8 games than Brees. That isn't all that significant in the least. The issue is more about the Lions lack of running game, offensive scheme and OL than it is with Stafford.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducky View Post
    Stafford turns the ball over exactly how much any QB in that offense should. You can't ask a QB to pass as much as the lion's have asked Stafford to pass with no threat of a running game and you have to expect a ton of INT's.

    Last 3 seasons:
    Stafford: 1949 attempts 50 INT's.
    Brees: 1902 attempts 43 INT's.

    In other words Stafford has thrown 1 extra pick every 8 games than Brees. That isn't all that significant in the least. The issue is more about the Lions lack of running game, offensive scheme and OL than it is with Stafford.
    Well put. I believe he and Brees have the same career INT rate if I'm not mistaken. They also have a somewhat similar start to their careers.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  13. #43
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    Stafford won't throw so many interceptions when he, finally, for the first time in his entire career, actually has a competent secondary playing behind him.

    No doubt he could also use a new coach to come in and tweak his mechanics like any good offensive coaching mind would.

  14. #44
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    Anyone want to over/under on penalties by the Lions and turnovers today against the Giants? The Lions should win this game. I'll still predict 6 penalties for 55yd and 2 turnovers.
    The cake is a lie. I'm pretty sure the numbers in the pie chart are made up too.

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