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  1. #1
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    The allowing a 100-yard rusher in six consecutive games stat

    Going into the game I honestly thought they kept mentioning this as a Chicago record that we were on the verge of tying and not the NFL record.

    Does this change/sway anyone's opinion of Tucker at this point?

    I mean of all of the terrible teams over the years, with less talent than ours despite our injuries, and probably teams with offenses that don't come close to putting up the points ours does, we're on the verge of being the worst squad in the history of the game when it comes to defending the run. I don't care if we're asking the ball boys to go out there and suit up, I want my DC to put 8 or 9 of them in the box and stop the damn run. I know I know, Tucker adapted to the players and it's not his system, but at some point he needs to make some changes or he needs to be the change we make at the end of the year.

  2. #2
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    We need Lance Briggs back on the field in the worst way.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by saljilael View Post
    We need Lance Briggs back on the field in the worst way.
    Even with Lance, I'm not sure how much better we'd be - he was there for NYG game and most of the Washington game and we didn't stop diddly poo...I shudder every time I see an opponent hand the ball off. I just expect at least an 8-10 yard run nearly every time.
    "Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception." - George Orwell

  4. #4
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    Not being able to stop the run is the worst part of a bad D IMO I would rather give up big plays in the passing game. But these 8,9,10+ runs almost every play is like getting kicked nuts time after time it just make your stomach and back hurt...

    Not only that, it is absolutely humiliating and makes you wonder about the defenses manhood... Tucker next year needs to implement his own D then we can judge him fairly.
    Last edited by Biggix; 12-12-2013 at 04:15 AM.

  5. #5
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    well our defensive injuries are pretty much telling opposing teams you can run up the middle and get ~10 yds a carry.

    Conte and Wright have been taking a lot of heat this season but RB's are getting the S level almost every play without a hand being put on them...so it's hard to judge.

    I think our situation is actually similar to Dallas. They bring in a new DC...the defense becomes a sieve however they have lost 50% of their starting players and are bringing in street FA's to try to fill holes.

    DC will take the blame however in our situation our current best player on the field right is arguably either Peppers (when he wants to play) or Jennings. I still can't tell right now if Pep has lost something or all the injuries we've had allow opposing olines to key in an neutralize Pep.

    Not saying I want to keep Tucker, as I think we're going to have so much turnover on D that it will be impossible to run any sort of C2 or T2 as we will not have the Dline personnel available. But I also think he hasn't gotten a fair shake either. Lovie NEVER had to deal with the injuries we've had this year. I seriously doubt his expertise could have saved this defense.
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  6. #6
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    I was thinking about this on the commute this morning. If you were, say, Green Bay, and got to remove four players from last year's Bears D, who would you pick? Probably Tillman, Briggs, and Melton, and throw in Urlacher just to remove any sense of identity or continuity. And if you had to remove three more guys, you'd be wise to go with Urlacher's replacement, Melton's replacement, and Paea. Carve a hole in the D, and make rookies try to cover it up.

    None of which makes Tucker a good DC. But I'm not sure that you can scheme or coach your way out of a rash of injuries that reads like an ancient Greek curse. I like to know why I'm damning or praising a guy, and I don't feel confident that I can do either with Tucker right now.
    That the world is explicable is miraculous, and so explanations need not be the undoing of miracles.

    After you talk about the hole in her nipple, where do you go with it? You’ve got nothing.

  7. #7
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    I'm not saying we should fire him and I'm taking all of the injuries into consideration. I just don't think, even with all of the injuries, that we should be "worst in league history" bad. Take away all of the players that we've lost this year and I could still go through the years and show you 10 teams a year with worse defensive talent than what Tucker's working with.

    I'm not expecting him to work miracles and I'm not comparing him to Lovie, it just raises a red flag in my book when you lose some key pieces and your defense becomes historically bad. In other words, he's not making any of the players better, he's not putting them in the best position to succeed, he's not making adjustments, we're not seeing improvements.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC Load Letter View Post
    I'm not saying we should fire him and I'm taking all of the injuries into consideration. I just don't think, even with all of the injuries, that we should be "worst in league history" bad. Take away all of the players that we've lost this year and I could still go through the years and show you 10 teams a year with worse defensive talent than what Tucker's working with.

    I'm not expecting him to work miracles and I'm not comparing him to Lovie, it just raises a red flag in my book when you lose some key pieces and your defense becomes historically bad. In other words, he's not making any of the players better, he's not putting them in the best position to succeed, he's not making adjustments, we're not seeing improvements.
    We're far, far from the worst defense in league history, by any measure (hell, if we're the worst, then by a very similar measure, Josh Gordon is the best WR in football history). We've allowed more running attacks to exceed a depressing but still arbitrary number, that's all.

    Teams are picking on our Achilles' heel, which is their right. Lose your HoFer MLB and his replacement, start the season with three active DTs and lose them all, and lose your Pro-Bowl WLB...and teams are going to run it on you. You probably won't be able to do much about that. If that helps you to a top-10 pass D and playoff viability late into the season, well, it ain't everything, but it ain't as bad as it could be, either.
    That the world is explicable is miraculous, and so explanations need not be the undoing of miracles.

    After you talk about the hole in her nipple, where do you go with it? You’ve got nothing.

  9. #9
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    Our run defense makes me sick. Tackliing is effort, not necessarily skill, and we suck at it. Khaseeme Greene is absolutely killing us. He gets caught up inside on plays right at him and overruns plays he should be able to chase down. He's WAY too aggressive. Part of me wants to blame Tucker for this run defense but you can't make chicken salad out of chicken poop.
    The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by karhu View Post
    I was thinking about this on the commute this morning. If you were, say, Green Bay, and got to remove four players from last year's Bears D, who would you pick? Probably Tillman, Briggs, and Melton, and throw in Urlacher just to remove any sense of identity or continuity. And if you had to remove three more guys, you'd be wise to go with Urlacher's replacement, Melton's replacement, and Paea. Carve a hole in the D, and make rookies try to cover it up.

    None of which makes Tucker a good DC. But I'm not sure that you can scheme or coach your way out of a rash of injuries that reads like an ancient Greek curse. I like to know why I'm damning or praising a guy, and I don't feel confident that I can do either with Tucker right now.
    I really, really agree with this. Well stated.
    Wouldn't it be great if we booted the 200 lawyers from the House and Senate and replaced them with economists? That way, we'd stop harming our economy with laws that would apply to the politicians, too.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by karhu View Post
    We're far, far from the worst defense in league history, by any measure (hell, if we're the worst, then by a very similar measure, Josh Gordon is the best WR in football history). We've allowed more running attacks to exceed a depressing but still arbitrary number, that's all.

    Teams are picking on our Achilles' heel, which is their right. Lose your HoFer MLB and his replacement, start the season with three active DTs and lose them all, and lose your Pro-Bowl WLB...and teams are going to run it on you. You probably won't be able to do much about that. If that helps you to a top-10 pass D and playoff viability late into the season, well, it ain't everything, but it ain't as bad as it could be, either.
    The Josh Gordon comparison is apples to rotten oranges. You can always find individual streaks or games that are associated with players not necessarily considered the best player (Matt Flynn has the best passing game in GB history, for example). Team performances on the other hand, such as this one, are usually much closer to the truth.

    We've also had the opportunity to pick on offenses led by Seneca Wallace and Kellen Clemens to sell out, stop the run and make a bum QB beat us, and we failed to do so. Lacy nearly single-handedly beat us and they couldn't even stop Benny stinking Cunningham. Those teams also have injuries on offense. I also don't believe you're naive enough to think we're actually trotting a top 10 pass defense out there, either. Sure we're bumped up in the rankings due to the lack of yards, but that's because teams are cramming it down our throats.

    I just don't see where we're improving. Even if we are playing rookies and backups, shouldn't we some a tiny improvement, at least?

  12. #12
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    Wow - great arguments.

    PCLL makes some great points about some of the very defendable offesense who have excelled against us. But I do think you're way off with your point about "10 teams per year with worse defensive talent than Tucker has had healthy"

    Others have made (or confirmed) great poinst about the high impact injuries (and losses) we've had. I agree with all of this, except for the impact of Urlacher's loss. He'd improve the run defense. And he probably wouldn't hurt us in pass defense because his lack of range would be traded off versus our young guys being sucked in by misdirection and playing too aggressively. But... I think the improvement would be marginal... he couldn't save this defense.

    i think the reality is, we don't have a single difference maker left on defense taht has been playing since Briggs went down. Briggs, Melton, Peppers, and Tillman were our only "Plus" starters last year IMO, and they were surrounded by solid guys who were good scheme fits everywhere else. Melton is hurt, Briggs is hurt, and Peppers and Peanut are deeply flawed by age. The reality is, most of the guys we trott out there wouldn't start on any of the top 10 defenses in football. And several of them would be backups on most NFL teams. We sort of are what we are, and because of it, I think it's tough to grade Tucker.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC Load Letter View Post
    The Josh Gordon comparison is apples to rotten oranges. You can always find individual streaks or games that are associated with players not necessarily considered the best player (Matt Flynn has the best passing game in GB history, for example).
    Now that's apples to oranges, comparing one game to a streak. The Bears have a streak, Gordon had a streak.
    They're commensurate.

    Team performances on the other hand, such as this one, are usually much closer to the truth.
    I'm not sure that you know why you wrote that, but here's another truth: of the four teams with whom we're tied, only one had a losing record.

    We've also had the opportunity to pick on offenses led by Seneca Wallace and Kellen Clemens to sell out, stop the run and make a bum QB beat us, and we failed to do so. Lacy nearly single-handedly beat us and they couldn't even stop Benny stinking Cunningham.
    We're all embarrassed, but

    1. How do you sell out against the run when your players are inexperienced and awful?

    2. Benny Cunningham is a good RB.

    3. Lacy is a very good RB.

    Those teams also have injuries on offense. I also don't believe you're naive enough to think we're actually trotting a top 10 pass defense out there, either. Sure we're bumped up in the rankings due to the lack of yards, but that's because teams are cramming it down our throats.
    I was pretty clear that our run D has helped us to a solid pass D ranking. Not clear enough, I guess.

    I just don't see where we're improving. Even if we are playing rookies and backups, shouldn't we some a tiny improvement, at least?
    Who said anything about improvement? That'd mean, at the very least, Corey Wootton playing like a solid DT and our 2nd- and 4th-round rookies playing like veterans. That was never likely to happen to Wootton, or to happen immediately to our rooks. Much as we'd like it to, we don't have much reason to scream bloody murder if it don't.
    That the world is explicable is miraculous, and so explanations need not be the undoing of miracles.

    After you talk about the hole in her nipple, where do you go with it? You’ve got nothing.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by karhu View Post
    Now that's apples to oranges, comparing one game to a streak. The Bears have a streak, Gordon had a streak.
    They're commensurate.
    OK so maybe the Flynn example was a bad one. My point still stands, IMO. you see more flukey individual performances/streaks than you do flukey team performance/streaks.


    Quote Originally Posted by karhu View Post
    I'm not sure that you know why you wrote that, but here's another truth: of the four teams with whom we're tied, only one had a losing record.
    I'm not sure why you wrote that? So the key to having a winning record is allowing 100 yard rushers? See how misleading it is to correlate the two? I'm simply going by the eyeball test when it comes to how bad our defense is, not what those other teams did.

    Quote Originally Posted by karhu View Post
    We're all embarrassed, but

    1. How do you sell out against the run when your players are inexperienced and awful?

    2. Benny Cunningham is a good RB.

    3. Lacy is a very good RB.
    By gameplaning? By putting them in position? By coaching them up? Sorry, but AP is the only RB in recent history that you'd expect to still have a good game with 8, 9, 10 in the box. I'm not ready to put either of them anywhere near that tier.

    Quote Originally Posted by karhu View Post
    I was pretty clear that our run D has helped us to a solid pass D ranking. Not clear enough, I guess.
    It was perfectly clear, I just don't see it's relevance. Our run D isn't "helping" anything other than opposing RBs fantasy stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by karhu View Post
    Who said anything about improvement? That'd mean, at the very least, Corey Wootton playing like a solid DT and our 2nd- and 4th-round rookies playing like veterans. That was never likely to happen to Wootton, or to happen immediately to our rooks. Much as we'd like it to, we don't have much reason to scream bloody murder if it don't.
    I did :)

    Nobody is saying Green and Bostic should be on pro bowl ballots. But I kinda view LB as the RBs in terms of being somewhat plug-n-play, so I would hope to see more out of them as they get more PT and notice slight improvements.

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