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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyndham View Post
    I would've agreed around 2 years ago, but it seems the NFL is more about speed now than ever. Guys who can get off the ball and dip around an OT, nothing's more valuable. I don't see a whole lot of evidence of dominant quick-twitch rush on tape, but the glimpses of it are special. Unblockable stuff. No question it would be a very risky pick, quite frankly for anyone in the top 10 or so, not just top 5 or #1.
    I'd argue the trend is just the opposite. Von Miller is the exception, not the norm.

    On pure athleticism: Mingo >>> Ansah > Jordan
    On upside: Ansah > Mingo > Jordan

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulu Bak View Post
    I'd argue the trend is just the opposite. Von Miller is the exception, not the norm.

    On pure athleticism: Mingo >>> Ansah > Jordan
    On upside: Ansah > Mingo > Jordan
    I tend to agree. Jordan's an intriguing talent, but pretty unrefined. Seems like a guy who would be a good SLB in either a 3-4 or 4-3. I don't know if he's a pure edge rusher. Mingo only had 3 sacks last year I know, but I think he's a very good pass rusher already.

    I do think all 3 are far superior to Jarvis Jones though. I've seen two comparisons that I like for him lately. Larry English and COrey Moore
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  3. #18
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    Really bad, awful, terrible. Fully half of these picks defy BPA and team need.
    Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory. - Leonardo da Vinci

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    I do think all 3 are far superior to Jarvis Jones though. I've seen two comparisons that I like for him lately. Larry English and COrey Moore
    Of course, I never saw you even so much as hint at that 2 or 3 months ago. He bombs his 40 and suddenly he forgot to play football. There's no denying he's slipped and I can see arguments for others above him, but I'll absolutely guarantee Jones has a better career than at LEAST one of those workout warriors, and likely 2.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    Mingo only had 3 sacks last year I know, but I think he's a very good pass rusher already.
    I know he didn't have many, but that sounds low. However, I don't think the stat sheet is a good representation of the on-field performance. Also, I think people need to keep in mind that he was really playing out of position at LSU because of need and scheme. He's not a "tweener," he's a LB that's been playing DE. Not even an especially big LB at that: 6"4 240.
    Last edited by Xulu Bak; 03-27-2013 at 06:19 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyndham View Post
    Of course, I never saw you even so much as hint at that 2 or 3 months ago. He bombs his 40 and suddenly he forgot to play football. There's no denying he's slipped and I can see arguments for others above him, but I'll absolutely guarantee Jones has a better career than at LEAST one of those workout warriors, and likely 2.
    I've never been huge on him. I've certainly seen him make plays and some of the games I've seen him play have made me like things about him. However, it certainly isn't just his 40(though if his name was Manti Te'o, nobody woudl have a problem dropping him for his 40...) that has made me not like him. I've always thought he was a huge benficiary of the system(he basically rushed out of a 2 point stance against RBs and TEs much of the time, with littler other responsibility), there are questions about his work ethic(which is why his pro day is a huge red flag) and I still can't completely write off the stenosis issue to be honest. He didn't just bomb his 40 either, he showed a complete lack of athleticism and explosion.

    I think it was Jeremiah who made the English comparison. I think its dead on. Similar college production, both considerd a bit small and slow. English was bigger and faster though. He's the LB equivalent of Case Keenum IMO. I wouldn't want my Lions to take him in the 2nd. Maybe he's Terrell Suggs and I"m wrong, we shall see.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulu Bak View Post
    I know he didn't have many, but that sounds low. However, I don't think the stat sheet is a good representation of the on-field performance. Also, I think people need to keep in mind that he was really playing out of position at LSU because of need and scheme. He's not a "tweener," he's a LB that's been playing DE. Not even an especially big LB at that: 6"4 240.
    4.5, my bad. I agree with him being a bad scheme fit at LSU to some degree though. He was asked to read and react a lot and not pin his ears back and rush the passer. I think he's a DE on a lot of teams though. He's a primary right side pass rusher in any defense pretty much if you ask me. A great fit in the wide 9 my Lions run IMO.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  8. #23
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    To not take Jones in the 2nd is just downright lunacy. Are you saying the same about Moore, I guess? You're right, maybe he's English, maybe he's Suggs. That's what makes this fun. But I don't see how you can say you wouldn't love Jones at 37 or whatever it is. Especially given what the Lions have at end and the other guys who will on the board. The type of impact Jones could make. You don't think he racks up double digit sacks playing off Suh's shoulder? I frickin' do.

    Medical and character, IDK about those, but the guy will break OT balls in the league.

  9. #24
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    I'm a hell of a lot more concerned with Jones' ability to hold up against the run than I am with his 40 time or playing speed.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyndham View Post
    To not take Jones in the 2nd is just downright lunacy. Are you saying the same about Moore, I guess? You're right, maybe he's English, maybe he's Suggs. That's what makes this fun. But I don't see how you can say you wouldn't love Jones at 37 or whatever it is. Especially given what the Lions have at end and the other guys who will on the board. The type of impact Jones could make. You don't think he racks up double digit sacks playing off Suh's shoulder? I frickin' do.

    Medical and character, IDK about those, but the guy will break OT balls in the league.
    I don't like him much for our scheme and I'm just less and less of a fan of his every day. I don't want Moore in the 2nd either. Both got overrated.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulu Bak View Post
    I know he didn't have many, but that sounds low. However, I don't think the stat sheet is a good representation of the on-field performance. Also, I think people need to keep in mind that he was really playing out of position at LSU because of need and scheme. He's not a "tweener," he's a LB that's been playing DE. Not even an especially big LB at that: 6"4 240.
    Mingo admitted he was around down around 235 lbs during the season. He uses his hands better but when i see Mingo, i get flashes of Manny Lawson. Built the same way, Lawson was more productive in college but could never get bigger and is still 240 lbs 6 years later. I think thats what Mingo will be. Another Manny Lawson. The guy probably knew he had to come in bigger to the combine and showed up at 241 lbs. Just dont think he is a guy who can keep weight on and for my team, i have no interest though many others on my forum board do.
    Last edited by Boltjolt; 03-28-2013 at 06:42 AM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    I don't like him much for our scheme and I'm just less and less of a fan of his every day. I don't want Moore in the 2nd either. Both got overrated.
    Basically both produced, dominated as QB nightmares in the NFL's minor league conference, and didn't work out so good. "Got" overrated = guys who no one even knew the name of in December. We all knew who Moore and Jones were for good reasons.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boltjolt View Post
    Mingo admitted he was around down around 235 lbs during the season. He uses his hands better but when i see Mingo, i get flashes of Manny Lawson. Built the same way, Lawson was more productive in college but could never get bigger and is still 240 lbs 6 years later. I think thats what Mingo will be. Another Manny Lawson. The guy probably knew he had to come in bigger to the combine and showed up at 241 lbs. Just dont think he is a guy who can keep weight on and for my team, i have no interest though many others on my forum board do.
    I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, either way that's pretty small for a LB, much less a DE. I actually think his best fit could be as a WLB in an aggressive 4-3. I think size is sometimes a overstated for a 3-4 OLB, but at his height, he probably needs to get to at least 250, and I'm not sure that's possible.

  14. #29
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    Jordan's going to be a great player and very useful in a lot of ways on a defense, but he's not ever going to be a terrorizing pass rusher. If you understand what you are getting you can take him #1 successfully. How many teams would love to have a LB that can actually cover an elite TE or set the edge?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesnut View Post
    Jordan's going to be a great player and very useful in a lot of ways on a defense, but he's not ever going to be a terrorizing pass rusher. If you understand what you are getting you can take him #1 successfully. How many teams would love to have a LB that can actually cover an elite TE or set the edge?
    His college usage isn't worth the #1 pick. He needs to keep OTs and QBs awake at night, it's as simple as that.

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