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  1. #1
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    Joeckel vs. Fisher

    Who do you think will be a better pro?

    I want to say Fisher. I like his athleticism, I like his mean streak, I like the idea that he could one day be the best tackle in football. He could also play RT for a year and dominate in the run and pass game. But I can't ignore that he could end up like Jason Smith, who I liked, and it seems like Joeckel has a ridiculously high floor.

    Torn.

  2. #2
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    Better pro? Not sure. Better prospect? I like Fisher better. Significantly.

    Joeckel might be the "safer" pick, but I have a hard time seeing him as a regular pro bowler, much less an All-Pro LT. Fisher might be riskier, but I think his risk-reward ratio is better, and you have to have confidence in your staff to develop talent. That's part of why I say "not sure" with regards to the "better pro" question.

    I'm not even entirely convinced Joeckel is the 2nd best OT prospect in this class. Johnson is raw, and probably the riskiest of the three, but he's also got the highest ceiling.

  3. #3
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    It's a classic potential vs. performance comparison.

    Joeckel played the best the SEC had to offer and more than held his own.

    Fisher is less proven due to his level of competition, but he seems almost perfect in terms of his athleticism and temperament.

    Joeckel is definitely the safer choice, but I do think Fisher may wind up being better.

  4. #4
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    Fisher on paper is a stud. He's got great feet and overall athleticism, long arms and he showed his surprising strength at the senior bowl. However, he definitely has more bad tape than Joeckel and thats in the MAC as opposed to the SEC. There has to be a little concern there.

    Joeckel is pretty much the exact opposite, except he's not a poor athlete or anything. He didn't blow away the combine, but he was solid enough. Kind of a bad 40, but good short area quickness in the drills. Solid strength and arm length. I think he compares very favorably to Matt Kalil, who is coming off a very good rookie season.

    Johnson is in the conversation too IMO. Its a 3 LT draft, all should go top 10(or 11 at least)
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  5. #5
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    Now, I cant pretend to know anything about Fisher's time at CMU, but damn he looked good at the Senior Bowl/Combine.

    Dude seems really mean. Check some interviews out. He seem like he genuinely wants to kill his opponent, go first overall and will step on anyone in his way.

    I'm intrigued as hell about him, but if you put a gun to my head as a GM and made me choose: I'm taking Joeckel with my job on the line.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiderfan007 View Post
    Now, I cant pretend to know anything about Fisher's time at CMU, but damn he looked good at the Senior Bowl/Combine.

    Dude seems really mean. Check some interviews out. He seem like he genuinely wants to kill his opponent, go first overall and will step on anyone in his way.

    I'm intrigued as hell about him, but if you put a gun to my head as a GM and made me choose: I'm taking Joeckel with my job on the line.
    Joeckel is mean as well. I like his vision on the field. When Manziel got happy feet , he really went to work on some of the SEC DEs.
    Joeckel came from a more complex offense as well.

    The "Boom" of Fisher is Nate Solder.
    The "Boom" of Joeckel is Boselli.

    It seems like JAX is in place to trade their no.1 in 2014 and swap picks for KC's no.1 overall. MIGHT hinge on Albert getting traded for a no.2.

  7. #7
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    That's incredibly disingenuous. Nate Solder? Get outta here, man. If by boom you mean upside, let's not pretend that Fisher doesn't have everything it takes to be the best LT in pro football. I don't think he'd even be in consideration for the pick if that wasn't the case. Elite athleticism, ability to completely shut down speed and bull rushers, and the mean streak and edge to dominate in the running game. That's the upside here. Nate Solder...?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyndham View Post
    That's incredibly disingenuous. Nate Solder? Get outta here, man. If by boom you mean upside, let's not pretend that Fisher doesn't have everything it takes to be the best LT in pro football. I don't think he'd even be in consideration for the pick if that wasn't the case. Elite athleticism, ability to completely shut down speed and bull rushers, and the mean streak and edge to dominate in the running game. That's the upside here. Nate Solder...?
    People thought exactly the same of Solder coming out and he's still not at his peak most likely. What's so insulting about that comparison? Fisher is very similarly raw too and arguably has worse tape than Lane Johnson, who is also very athletic.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    People thought exactly the same of Solder coming out and he's still not at his peak most likely. What's so insulting about that comparison? Fisher is very similarly raw too and arguably has worse tape than Lane Johnson, who is also very athletic.
    I'm not really sure either. Solder might be one of the best Pass LTs in the league and is still under rookie contract.

    Fisher has the body and build, but his tape against Mich St has flaws. Joeckel is more of a lumberjack strength guy on the eye test, and has better tape against SEC teams. Not sure if anyone disputes that.

    Joeckel will *likely* gain muscle in his shoulders and near his neck.
    Fisher will likely gain more weight as he'll be facing DEs that are stronger than the usual competition that he faced at CMU.

  10. #10
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    I don't think Solder was regarded as the prospect Fisher is at this stage in the draft period his year. Solder was seen as more of a project who could develop into a fine pass blocking LT, which is kind of what happened. Fisher has more meanness to him and clearly has more upside.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggloo View Post
    I don't think Solder was regarded as the prospect Fisher is at this stage in the draft period his year. Solder was seen as more of a project who could develop into a fine pass blocking LT, which is kind of what happened. Fisher has more meanness to him and clearly has more upside.
    A) What I was getting at is that Fisher has a tall, very athletic frame. He could have dropped 40-50 lbs and played TE if his hands were good. Solder was a converted TE who came to the Buffs weight 230.

    The frame that Fisher has now, is similar to the tone that Solder has now (not draft). Solder went to the draft with about 30 lbs added on in the offseason... but most of it wasn't toned & firmed like Fisher's looked at the Combine/Pro Days. (thus he looked soft, baby faced).

    B) Solder is mean too. He got into a fight during the Camp Pass for Season Ticket Holders with Brandon Spikes. His blows sent Spikes limping off the field.

    BOTH Solder and Fisher had technical issues coming out of their Senior Season. Both bent against a bullrush.

  12. #12
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    Yah, they were pretty similar prospects coming out. Solder was seen as slightly more raw and was in a stronger draft. That's about it. Overall they are athletes, who look great on paper, who have a little work to do on their technique
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  13. #13
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    I think it's fair to say this is a weaker draft and that has helped Fisher, but he is clearly a more well rounded prospect talent wise.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggloo View Post
    I think it's fair to say this is a weaker draft and that has helped Fisher, but he is clearly a more well rounded prospect talent wise.
    Solder's success and the "passing league" phenomenon probably helped Fisher's draft stock.

    7 of the top 11 picks in 2011 have already made it to a Pro Bowl. I wouldn't be shocked if Marcell Dareus went if the Bills improve.

    Solder also went ahead Castonzo & Carimini. Both of those guys were more old school blue collar OTs. Both of those guys had the hype to be potential Top 10 picks because of their technique / ability to win. Carimini is now a right guard and hasn't been healthy. Costanzo improved but I wouldn't say that he's anything special - at least not as special as Solder.

    This has been a bit of a trend with the "technique & old school OTs". We saw Stanford's highly rated linemen Martin & DeCatro and Iowa's Riley Reiff & Brian Bulaga slip & struggle when they were considered the "more NFL ready" prospects.

  15. #15
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    I get what you mean, but I"m not sure that any of the 4 you have mentioned "struggled". Reiff was always supposed to sit a year, Martin did a pretty good job at RT, Bulaga is very solid but banged up and Decastro tore his ACL after being drafted. He came back and looked pretty good for a guy coming back at the end of his rookie season off a major injury. We'll have to see how he does next year.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

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