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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    No doubt, but eventually you have to fit the ball into tight windows against good defenses.
    Absolutely. The real question is just how weak is Barkley's arm?
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

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  2. #62
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    I don't know if I am that worried about Barkley's arm if I think he is a worker. Both Brees and Brady had subpar arms in college, but through improved mechanics and strength training, they were able to significantly improve that. I'd be more concerned about Barkley's decision-making that led to all the INTs this year - that wasn't due to poor arm strength.
    "I don't Twitter, I don't MyFace, I don't do any of those things, so I'd probably be the last to know."

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  3. #63
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    I'm curious to see how people rate their top 5 safeties in this class. It is a deep safety class and from what I've watched and read the rankings on these guys are all over the place.

    Vaccaro is viewed as the top dog, but I've seen some suggest that they prefer Cyprien or Reid over him.

    Then you've also got Elam and Swearinger too

    Thoughts?
    "It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man" - Jack Handy

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dre View Post
    I'm curious to see how people rate their top 5 safeties in this class. It is a deep safety class and from what I've watched and read the rankings on these guys are all over the place.

    Vaccaro is viewed as the top dog, but I've seen some suggest that they prefer Cyprien or Reid over him.

    Then you've also got Elam and Swearinger too

    Thoughts?

    Vaccaro is my clear cut #1, Elam and Eric Reid would fall just below him in the late 1st-early 2nd range.

    After that Cyprien and Shamarko Thomas would round out my top five, sitting in the 2nd-3rd range.

    I'm intrigued by two HUGE safeties with legit coverage skills in this draft. Probably late round/UDFA types. Cooper Taylor the 6-4 229LB Safety from Richmond who showed really well at the E-W shrine game and Dexter McCoil who is 6-5 222 and ended up his career at Tulsa with 26 career picks.

    It really is a deep class too. Wilcox, Swearinger, Duke Williams, Phillip Thomas, Lester, Wolff and Tony Jefferson all have NFL ability.

  5. #65
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    Not being argumentative here, just wanting to have a discussion :)

    Quote Originally Posted by raiderfan007 View Post
    Vaccaro is my clear cut #1,
    Why, what makes him so great? He only has 5 INTs in 51 career games. Is he any better than Michael Huff coming out of college?

    Quote Originally Posted by raiderfan007 View Post
    Elam and Eric Reid would fall just below him in the late 1st-early 2nd range.
    Any concerns with Elam's range?

    Reid was pretty up and down from what I've seen, very aggressive and gave up huge plays at times.


    Quote Originally Posted by raiderfan007 View Post
    I'm intrigued by two HUGE safeties with legit coverage skills in this draft. Probably late round/UDFA types. Cooper Taylor the 6-4 229LB Safety from Richmond who showed really well at the E-W shrine game and Dexter McCoil who is 6-5 222 and ended up his career at Tulsa with 26 career picks.
    Haven't seen much of them, will check out, thanks
    "It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man" - Jack Handy

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dre View Post
    I'm curious to see how people rate their top 5 safeties in this class. It is a deep safety class and from what I've watched and read the rankings on these guys are all over the place.

    Vaccaro is viewed as the top dog, but I've seen some suggest that they prefer Cyprien or Reid over him.

    Then you've also got Elam and Swearinger too

    Thoughts?
    I was just thinking about this today. I like Vaccaro, but I think especially Elam and maybe even Reid are better than him. Maybe some of these safeties get pushed down since there are a handful that could be pretty good. I've never seen Cyprien play, to be fair.

  7. #67
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    I'm big on Wilcox from Georgia Southern. Smooth athlete with the cover skills of a corner.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  8. #68
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    Despite the fact that he clearly didn't intercept that pass against Bama in the regular season meeting in 2011, I'm a big Reid fan.

    Guy is a rangy playmaker.
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

    "Just because you're the lone voice in the wilderness, it doesn't mean you're wrong."
    - Ghandi

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dre View Post
    Not being argumentative here, just wanting to have a discussion :)
    No worries amigo. Thats what this place is for. I'll try my best to answer:

    Why, what makes him so great? He only has 5 INTs in 51 career games. Is he any better than Michael Huff coming out of college?
    I think his skill set translates well to the pros. Good size, solid range, decent hips. He seems like one of the few safeties with the versatility to play deep or in the box, IMO. Nowadays safeties who can cover are very valuable. As far as the Huff comparison...Dude has ALWAYS played soft. Avoided contact, taken weak angles and just dove at runners feet. Never been impressed while he was on my Raiders.

    Any concerns with Elam's range?
    Depends how you use him. He would never be a center fielder for my team, if thats what you mean. He has some ability in coverage though.

    Reid was pretty up and down from what I've seen, very aggressive and gave up huge plays at times.
    I like him more than most, I think. I think he has good playmaking potential and a ton of upside.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised to see 3 QBs go top 10 or so. Including Nassib to Buffalo.
    I don't know.

    At some point these GM's are going to realize that overdrafting the wrong QB can set a franchise back much further than not drafting one at all.

    I can see Smith going top 4 in the current crazy QB market. And I can even see someone going with Barkley in the top 10. But Nassib in the top 10 is sheer lunacy. Its the type of pick that is almost certain to get a GM fired in a couple years.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dre View Post
    Not being argumentative here, just wanting to have a discussion :)



    Why, what makes him so great? He only has 5 INTs in 51 career games. Is he any better than Michael Huff coming out of college?



    Any concerns with Elam's range?

    Reid was pretty up and down from what I've seen, very aggressive and gave up huge plays at times.




    Haven't seen much of them, will check out, thanks
    It bothersome to have seen Reid digress his final season. He was invisable all to often
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimjack View Post
    It bothersome to have seen Reid digress his final season. He was invisable all to often
    Yep completely agree, that's what worries me about him

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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItIsWhatItIs View Post
    I don't know if I am that worried about Barkley's arm if I think he is a worker. Both Brees and Brady had subpar arms in college, but through improved mechanics and strength training, they were able to significantly improve that. I'd be more concerned about Barkley's decision-making that led to all the INTs this year - that wasn't due to poor arm strength.


    I think that problem will always be a problem for him. He actually threw a lot of INTs in high school for someone that was rated as such an 'elite' prospect. He thinks he is Favre.
    "All that is necessary for the
    forces of evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing"
    Edmund Burke

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducky View Post
    I don't know.

    At some point these GM's are going to realize that overdrafting the wrong QB can set a franchise back much further than not drafting one at all.

    I can see Smith going top 4 in the current crazy QB market. And I can even see someone going with Barkley in the top 10. But Nassib in the top 10 is sheer lunacy. Its the type of pick that is almost certain to get a GM fired in a couple years.
    I don't agree with the bolded at all. You take a QB who busts instead of some DT or WR who ends up being pretty good and it will hurt you, but the benefits of finding a franchise QB go way beyond any other singular addition. Passing on one can drastically alter the direction of your franchise for a decade.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  15. #75
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    On the safeties, I like Elam the best. I don't think range is an issue, I think the issue is lack of prototypical size. Vaccaro made plenty of plays in college, INTs aside, but I think he is a reach in the mid first like some have him. Reid looks great on paper but if you watched LSU last year his coverage left something to be desired. He is a hitter and may turn out great but seems to lack the feel for the game that a guy like Elam has. Phillip Thomas is a name to watch, he is a ballhawk with good overall skills but apparently may be hurt by mediocre 40 times. DJ Swearinger is another interesting prospect, more like a Louis Delmas type in the sense that he is undersized and plays recklessly. But he seems to be rated too low by many draftniks compared to the way he played last season.

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