rethinking the NT position

[bridgecoach]

I keep reading posts where people keep repeating that you don't invest a high pick in a NT. Just draft a huge guy in the mid rounds to absorb double teams and clog lanes. While I'm not sure that I agree with that viewpoint in the first place, I'm certain that we will have to rethink the NT position opposite a Chip Kelly offense and through the lens of a Bill Davis Defense.

For good or ill, we should expect the offense to move at a much faster pace under Chip Kelly. All of our defensive players will see a lot more time on the field and a lot less time regrouping on the bench. Most defensive players wont have the conditioning to keep that pace, much less an out of shape behemoth. Compound that with Bill Davis valuing unpredictable alignments where the NT could line up over the center, or shade off the center, or switch to a traditional DT role at the drop of a hat; and you see the value of securing an elite athlete at the NT position.

This draft has a few prospects that fit that mold albeit on three different tiers: Tier 1 - Star Lutolelei, Tier 2 - John Hankins, and Tier 3 - Jesse Williams. Star is a far better prospect than Williams, but all three have the combination of athleticism, size, strength and versatility I think we will need from a NT under the Eagles scheme. Kwame Geathers could be a 4th name. And I expect these NTs will come off the board in that order.

The advantage of having personnel on the field who can play multiple alignments is the key factor here. With this rare athletic NT, we can more effectively disguise our defense and force opposing offenses to work that much harder.

The only FAs that has any semblance of that skill set is Randy Starks (MIA) and possibly (if you squint just right) Terrance Knighton.

So it is looking like a key position that we need to address with a very small pool to draw from. Which is why I think it will be very unlikely that we pass on Star, if he is available at 4.

[Birds4life81]

It would be stupid to pass on Star if he's there at #4 regardless on what defense we run. Only way I'd pass up on Star is if Joeckel was still on the board

If Star and Joeckel are both gone I personally would want the Eagles to try to trade down twice and snatch Jessie Williams in the 20's

[swat]

Imo, if we draft Star, it would be to be play DE/DT. Not NT.

[Wings]

Imo, if we draft Star, it would be to be play DE/DT. Not NT.

I actually agree with Swat....I don't see Star as a NT....and actually as I have said before, Star is the 2nd best DT in this draft IMO Shariff Floyd is bettter at splitting a double team, better at disposing of the guy in front of him, and better at blowing up plays in the backfield. Not to mention, Floyd faced far better competition than Star. I believe Jesse Williams will make it to us in rd 2 simply because so many good JR Dt's decided to come out.

One other thing, you guys that keep talking about Joeckel need to understand, Joeckel is not a great run blocker, he is not really suited for Chip Kellys offense, he is perfect for Andy Reids offense. So clearly Fisher would be the better pick if we go OT. I still think some of you are dismissing athletic RT Dennis Kelly way to early. He started 36 games at LT for Purdue... He looked decent for a 5th rd pick. He was a TE in high school. For a guy that only had 3 years of OT experience I thought the kid did pretty damn well. His athleticism, along with his run blocking ability will be perfect in Chip Kellys system.

[bridgecoach]

Yes, Floyd is slightly better at getting to the QB. But we are not talking about a significant distinction that would put them on different tiers. However, when it comes to occupying blockers, Star is on a completely different tier than Floyd - which is why no one has Floyd projected with the ability to play 3-4 NT.

I think many here are discounting Star because they don't see him as a traditional NT; and I think the issue is with that perception - not Star. He is widely held out as the top NT in this draft with many traditional NT prospects to choose from. He has played the NT role with tremendous success and has all the skill sets, the size, and the strength. He also has the athleticism to line up anywhere on the defensive line and get to the QB or occupy blockers. Which is why I think he will be at the top of Chip Kelly's, Jerry Azzinaro's, and Billy Davis' draft board.

While I agree with Wings, that Luke Joeckel's best value to the Eagles's may be as a lure for trade partners. He is a great player and a phenomenal run blocker. He does it all and does it all well. Joeckel walls off defenders to great huge lanes for the ball carrier and afterwards gets to the second level and blocks more run defenders - probably better than anyone in the country. I have no problem seeing him succeed under Chip Kelly. I'm all for BPA, but best defensive player available seems like the much smarter move.

I think Star is far higher on the BPA scale than Milliner. It will be interesting to see if any OLBs can move ahead of him over the coming months.

[Birds4life81]

Star is the prototypical 4-3 DT but I think he could still be a beast as a 3-4 DE and NT. Though I'd probably like him more as a 3-4 DE than NT, still like him at either position because the dude is an absolute beast.

[Wings]

Star is the prototypical 4-3 DT but I think he could still be a beast as a 3-4 DE and NT. Though I'd probably like him more as a 3-4 DE than NT, still like him at either position because the dude is an absolute beast.

I agree he is a very good player....beast I don't see very good player sure....as a NT I think not....I don't like him even a little bit as a NT.

[old duke]

Agree with some on Williams, who is a pure NT. Star is a great prospect, but also agree that he would be a great 4-3 DT, or 3-4 DE. So, right now I think if things don't change in FA, look for them to go DE/OLB;CB;S, with our first 3 picks. Of course, things will change between now and the Draft. they always do. We are just having a great time speculating!

[eaglesnut]

For now I'd just go with one in the mid rounds.

An athletic, more of a DT than NT type (like Star), is Brandon Williams, 6'2, 340, Missouri Southern, 68 tackles, 8.5 sacks, 16.5 tackles for loss, 5 forced fumbles in 2012.

Kwame Geathers is massive and split time at nose with John Jenkins at Georgia.

Montari Hughes is another big body from a small school that could clog the middle.

We may have a better chance to draft a NT in future years from the teens which is a more natural area to land nose tackles - Holati Ngata (12), Casey Hampton (19), Vince Wilfork (21). Those guys all have rings.

[Deano]

The best thing a NT can do is make LBs look good. Every good ILB owes his big contract to the big space eater in from of him. I don't spend a #1 on a NT when there are really good tier 2 guys available, especially in this draft.

[bridgecoach]

My premise is that he isn't just a NT. Everyone agrees that he can play both roles at a high level - and has the talent and upside to be a force in the league and be a key part of defining our defense. Star would be an every down, every alignment guy - and that is incredibly rare. That is not something that you can pick up later in the draft.

Whether lined up as 3-4, 4-3, 4 -2, or 2-4; Star Lutolelei can play on our front line. And I suspect that that is what the new coaching staff will place a high premium. You build from the inside out. And our Defensive Line needs its foundation. Cox and Lutolelei could be that center. We are not building a 3-4 or a 4-3 - they want to be able to have the personnel to mix it up on the fly when the opponents are going no huddle.

We need to rethink what we need from our defensive core. At 4 we have the luxury to do so. If we put off the core until round two or later, who knows what players will be taken or available. Why gamble with the center of the defense? Better to see what secondary players or SOLBs drop to round two, then to hope that a NT/DT uber hybrid makes it there.

[eaglesnut]

How about because every team that's ever drafted a Dlinemen at the top of the draft for the 3-4 has regretted it because those guys don't make plays, they absorb blockers. I showed you where NTs are drafted.

The one that may have worked was Richard Seymour (6) to the Patriots, but he couldn't NT, they played him at DE, they ended up taking another NT three drafts later and they didn't already have a 1st rounder from the previous year as a building block along the dline.

The Seahawks drafted Red Bryant in the 3rd round and he's currently their Dline anchor in a non-conventional front.

Star isn't that special. He's a big good interior Dlineman prospect. He's not as good as Suh or even Fairley was in college and they played at bigger schools against better competition and the Lions defense still sucks.

Show me a DT drafted in the top 5 that went on to be a part of a legitimate defense...