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  1. #1
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    So Bill Gates has been making the rounds...

    ...on the talk show circuits to hock his proposals for teacher evaluation. According to his 6- district, 1000+ teacher multi- year study the best teacher evaluations consist of equal parts:
    -student test scores
    -direct observation
    -student survey

    Naturally I believe 2/3rds of his findings are utter bullsht, but so does the National Education Policy Center:
    However, a careful look at the MET research – an ambitious, multi-year study of thousands of teachers in six school districts – finds that the study’s results were inconclusive and provide little usable guidance.

    “The MET research does little to settle longstanding debates over how best to evaluate teachers comprehensively,”
    said Jesse Rothstein of the University of California Berkeley.

    Rothstein and William Mathis, NEPC’s managing director, conducted the review for the policy center’s Think Twice think tank review project.

    The MET study compared three types of teacher performance measures: Student test scores, classroom observations, and student surveys. The project concluded that the three should be given roughly equal weight in teacher evaluations.

    Rothstein and Mathis found that the data do not support that conclusion. Instead, the data indicate that each measure reflects a distinct dimension of teaching. Rothstein said, “Any evaluation system needs to be founded on a judgment about what constitutes effective teaching, and that that judgment will drive the choice of measures. Nothing in the MET project’s results helps in forming that judgment.”

    “While we commend The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation for investing millions of dollars in tackling critical education issues, the conclusions in this case do not jibe with the data,” said Mathis.
    Sigh. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has a strong foothold in shaping American Education, despite endorsing practices that don't equate to sound results. This Fall, the Gates fingerprint will be all over education as we all move to the Common Core State Standards, which the Gates Foundation largely funded.

    Gates may mean well, but when it comes to education he does not know what he is talking about. But since he has $ people listen and do whatever he says just to get a piece of the pie, consequences be damned.

    link: http://nepc.colorado.edu/newsletter/...MET-final-2013
    Last edited by ForWhoForWhat?; 02-05-2013 at 11:14 PM.
    "Stop doing the wrong things. Stop promoting competition and choice as answers to the very inequality that was created by competition and choice."
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  2. #2
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    I don't see how it can be any worse than current state. Even if teachers are "teaching to the test", that at least means more students will learn to read and write for those tests. Basic reading / writing skills are horrendous for grade levels in public schools these days.
    If the majority distributes among itself the things of a minority, it is evident that it will destroy the city. --Aristotle
    If we did all the things we are capable of, we would literally astound ourselves. - Thomas Edison

  3. #3
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    Well you didn't provide a link so I can't read the entire but what you blurbed doesn't really say much other than these guys don't agree with the study.

    Very broad ideas. I don't see how test scores, observation, and student surveys are bad ideas in any way.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin Lombardi View Post
    I don't see how it can be any worse than current state. Even if teachers are "teaching to the test", that at least means more students will learn to read and write for those tests. Basic reading / writing skills are horrendous for grade levels in public schools these days.
    And you do not learn them that by teaching to the test either... As seen by many of the Chinese students who come over here; the pass the English proficiency tests by being taught to the test (assuming they actually do make the test themselves). And then when they arrive it is still nearly impossible to communicate with them (and that is not purely cultural), and for many their 'academic' qualifications are not much better either (i.e. ability does not match the diploma).

    IIRC at the University of Hawaii they did an extra examination of Asian students in particular after their arrival to test their English proficiency. I know over here some tests are no longer seen as sufficient (regulations say they are, but students are not admitted based on those alone) at some universities for that reason.
    Al Michaels: "That's the loudest manure chant I have ever heared!"

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  5. #5
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    Honestly, fwfw, teachers these days suck. Im sorry dude, but you know it just as well as i do. I remember having good quality teachers when i was a kid. But when i got to highschool, when the older generation of teachers retired and passed away, they left this new generation of lazy whiny weak, paycheck post-ups.

    I remember actually hearing crappy teachers in HS talk trash about two of my best teachers becuase they were "trying to save the world". Id say 90% percent of teachers stink. And probably 70% just simply want to collect a paycheck.

    In philly, my elementary school was a teacher hall of fame in philly.

    My principle, mrs cartwright was on dateline, had a national recognized program and she took no crap from her staff, she held all of her teachers feet to the fire and they all loved and respected her. Those teachers were so awsome, that companies where lining up throw money at that school. Merril lynch through over a million toward one class of graduates to whichever student who graduated HS and wanted college wanted for nothing.

    My reading test scores were so high when i left that school that myself and one other student were pulled out of the class room and got a personal lesson. We read sheakspeare and dickens, and orwell. Ive had the chance to do some great things in my life, and i thank got the foundation in education i got helped propel me to those things, AF jump team medic, AF nasa mefic to the edwards revovery program, top 5 in my training class, top 3 in clinicals encluding a sick national registry score. In only three weeks of study (typically emt national registry classes take a year) and it allowed me to make some great business moves.

    Long story short, teachers in my youth, would call parents, make house visits, call social services if needed to get a kid to learn. Seems these days "teacher" is a title, and not much a job descriptive word. So while im not a big bill gates fan, at least hes trying to get teachers to do their dsmn jobs and stop getting run over by that crappy union. Now i will admit, there are a solid 10% that are wuality throwback teachers.

    I had one lady who found funding to build a courtroom in my HS, started and ran the most successful mock trial and law program the city has ever seen, placing 16th state-wide and being the only public school in the top 50 and the only public pa school invited to nationals in arizona. But not even a year after i graduated they (the fellow teachers) chased her out of the school and tore down the courtroom. And the graduation rate hit the crapper.
    "Girl was bout as nutty as squirel $h!t"- Uncle ruckas.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFspeedboy View Post
    Long story short, teachers in my youth, would call parents, make house visits, call social services if needed to get a kid to learn. Seems these days "teacher" is a title, and not much a job descriptive word. So while im not a big bill gates fan, at least hes trying to get teachers to do their dsmn jobs and stop getting run over by that crappy union. Now i will admit, there are a solid 10% that are wuality throwback teachers.
    So this is your litmus test? Teachers that are going to chase kids down and fix their students lives for them? Well, for starters, remember that we live in a much more litigious society... Its all teachers these days can do to not get written up for a phone conversation that didn't go a parent's way... Much less showing up on their door step and attempting to take a child away or what have you...

    Perhaps the days of teachers being "married to the job" has gone by the wayside... But to suggest that 90% suck is rediculous... Maybe in Philly 90% suck, I don't know... Haven't witnessed Philadelphia schools personally, but if they're like most inner-city schools, I can tell you its because teachers don't WANT to teach there so they get stuck with lesser quality...

    Quote Originally Posted by USAFanSpeedboy
    I had one lady who found funding to build a courtroom in my HS, started and ran the most successful mock trial and law program the city has ever seen, placing 16th state-wide and being the only public school in the top 50 and the only public pa school invited to nationals in arizona. But not even a year after i graduated they (the fellow teachers) chased her out of the school and tore down the courtroom. And the graduation rate hit the crapper.
    Things like this have fallen by the wayside in public schools because NCLB and such have insisted that schools teach to the lowest common denomenator... Many accelerrated programs and such that would do special things like you mention here were slashed a LONG time ago... Even still though, there are things like this in public schools (again, maybe not in Philly, but you cannot judge a nation by what you see there.)..
    "Yeah, everything that guy just said is Bullsh!t..... Thank you.." -Vincent LaGuardia Gambini-

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFspeedboy View Post
    Honestly, fwfw, teachers these days suck. Im sorry dude, but you know it just as well as i do. I remember having good quality teachers when i was a kid. But when i got to highschool, when the older generation of teachers retired and passed away, they left this new generation of lazy whiny weak, paycheck post-ups.

    I remember actually hearing crappy teachers in HS talk trash about two of my best teachers becuase they were "trying to save the world". Id say 90% percent of teachers stink. And probably 70% just simply want to collect a paycheck.

    In philly, my elementary school was a teacher hall of fame in philly.

    My principle, mrs cartwright was on dateline, had a national recognized program and she took no crap from her staff, she held all of her teachers feet to the fire and they all loved and respected her. Those teachers were so awsome, that companies where lining up throw money at that school. Merril lynch through over a million toward one class of graduates to whichever student who graduated HS and wanted college wanted for nothing.

    My reading test scores were so high when i left that school that myself and one other student were pulled out of the class room and got a personal lesson. We read sheakspeare and dickens, and orwell. Ive had the chance to do some great things in my life, and i thank got the foundation in education i got helped propel me to those things, AF jump team medic, AF nasa mefic to the edwards revovery program, top 5 in my training class, top 3 in clinicals encluding a sick national registry score. In only three weeks of study (typically emt national registry classes take a year) and it allowed me to make some great business moves.

    Long story short, teachers in my youth, would call parents, make house visits, call social services if needed to get a kid to learn. Seems these days "teacher" is a title, and not much a job descriptive word. So while im not a big bill gates fan, at least hes trying to get teachers to do their dsmn jobs and stop getting run over by that crappy union. Now i will admit, there are a solid 10% that are wuality throwback teachers.

    I had one lady who found funding to build a courtroom in my HS, started and ran the most successful mock trial and law program the city has ever seen, placing 16th state-wide and being the only public school in the top 50 and the only public pa school invited to nationals in arizona. But not even a year after i graduated they (the fellow teachers) chased her out of the school and tore down the courtroom. And the graduation rate hit the crapper.
    So when you were really young teachers were great but when you hit puberty and became a punk, like most people, teachers started to suck?

    Weird how that works.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Payton34 View Post
    Things like this have fallen by the wayside in public schools because NCLB and such have insisted that schools teach to the lowest common denomenator... Many accelerrated programs and such that would do special things like you mention here were slashed a LONG time ago... Even still though, there are things like this in public schools (again, maybe not in Philly, but you cannot judge a nation by what you see there.)..
    A friend of mine teaches AP history. Her classes do a lot of interesting things including creating mock governments.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyerhawk View Post
    So when you were really young teachers were great but when you hit puberty and became a punk, like most people, teachers started to suck?

    Weird how that works.
    Right... Becuase myself, the teachers who gave a damn and the highest graduating class in modern wphs history were the problem. My charter or area of study had a 95% graduation rate, and of that 95% all of us went on to higher education. And we all still keep in touch via FB.

    Your reply was as dumb as your stance on gun control.
    "Girl was bout as nutty as squirel $h!t"- Uncle ruckas.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFspeedboy View Post
    Right... Becuase myself, the teachers who gave a damn and the highest graduating class in modern wphs history were the problem. My charter or area of study had a 95% graduation rate, and of that 95% all of us went on to higher education. And we all still keep in touch via FB.

    Your reply was as dumb as your stance on gun control.
    You were the one who was saying that teachers are terrible today but they were great when you were a little kid.

    Now you're changing your tune.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyerhawk View Post
    You were the one who was saying that teachers are terrible today but they were great when you were a little kid.

    Now you're changing your tune.
    Your reading comprehension sucks...
    "Girl was bout as nutty as squirel $h!t"- Uncle ruckas.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFspeedboy View Post
    Your reading comprehension sucks...
    You didn't say this...

    Honestly, fwfw, teachers these days suck. Im sorry dude, but you know it just as well as i do. I remember having good quality teachers when i was a kid. But when i got to highschool, when the older generation of teachers retired and passed away, they left this new generation of lazy whiny weak, paycheck post-ups.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Payton34 View Post
    So this is your litmus test? Teachers that are going to chase kids down and fix their students lives for them? Well, for starters, remember that we live in a much more litigious society... Its all teachers these days can do to not get written up for a phone conversation that didn't go a parent's way... Much less showing up on their door step and attempting to take a child away or what have you...

    Perhaps the days of teachers being "married to the job" has gone by the wayside... But to suggest that 90% suck is rediculous... Maybe in Philly 90% suck, I don't know... Haven't witnessed Philadelphia schools personally, but if they're like most inner-city schools, I can tell you its because teachers don't WANT to teach there so they get stuck with lesser quality...



    Things like this have fallen by the wayside in public schools because NCLB and such have insisted that schools teach to the lowest common denomenator... Many accelerrated programs and such that would do special things like you mention here were slashed a LONG time ago... Even still though, there are things like this in public schools (again, maybe not in Philly, but you cannot judge a nation by what you see there.)..

    My point is, the quality of dedicated teachers arent even close to what they once held. All i hear from teachers are excuses and reasons why they arent giving 100%.

    Parents suck too, i agree, but that isnt a new phenominon here.

    My mothers mentor was a lady named miss freeman, she tuaght my mom, my brother and my sister, and when my mom became an educator she requested to work with her. I remember vividly ms freeman feeding children whos parents were on drugs, i remember my mom and ms freeman swinging by kids houses to take kids to festivals in the stawberry mansion park (on a saturday at that). To this day in my old "hood" im known as "ms ____ 's son". Mrs freeman was dedicated to her craft. Mr cartwright was dedicated to her craft, my mother was dedicated to her craft. Those were teachers. Todays run are pethtic. Not all, but clearly most are. Whens the last time you heard of teachers visiting childrens homes, requesting personal conferences or calling parents employers to talk with them or actually
    Feeding a child, or taking time after class on a regular basis to nurture a kids potential.

    Its sad becuase being a teacher these days is the only career where end results dont count toward a persons record. Its insane.
    Last edited by USAFspeedboy; 02-05-2013 at 02:23 PM.
    "Girl was bout as nutty as squirel $h!t"- Uncle ruckas.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyerhawk View Post
    You didn't say this...
    THIS

    Quote Originally Posted by USAFspeedboy View Post
    Honestly, fwfw, teachers these days suck. Im sorry dude, but you know it just as well as i do. I remember having good quality teachers when i was a kid. But when i got to highschool, when the older generation of teachers retired and passed away, they left this new generation of lazy whiny weak, paycheck post-ups.

    I remember actually hearing crappy teachers in HS talk trash about two of my best teachers becuase they were "trying to save the world". Id say 90% percent of teachers stink. And probably 70% just simply want to collect a paycheck.
    I sincerily hope you are not an educator...

    Either your reading comp sucks... Or you purposely make it a bad habit of chopping up post, and disengenuously reposting chopped parts that are clearly not what people are saying...
    "Girl was bout as nutty as squirel $h!t"- Uncle ruckas.

  15. #15
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    Exclamation

    I don't think it is a very good idea... at all... to have teacher evaluations be based (even if only in part) on student surveys if we are talking about kids high school age and lower.

    Does anyone out there really think that would be a good idea?
    Although it is said that our faith concerns matters which are obscure, the reasons for embracing the faith are not obscure but on the contrary are clearer than any natural light.
    -Descartes

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