President Obama:

[AndromedaPatFan]

My take starts:

• Obama is surprisingly awful on domestic surveillance, torture, and other police-state stuff.
• The Wall Street bailouts were needed, in general. Obama is held back by Congress on better oversight. I don't agree with the bashing there.
• That said, the lack of prosecutions of Wall Streeters is pretty bad when juxtaposed against other uses of prosecutorial power.
• I think gun control is good, not bad. But even if you disagree with that -- Obama has done little or none of it.
• I think Obama has moved the discrimination needle about as far as it could be moved both in matters of race and of sexuality. African-Americans who were hoping for yet a lot more progress in four (or eight) years were dreaming.
• Hillary Clinton has moved the needle about as far as it could be moved in matters of sex. I think Obama is personally somewhat sexist, but so be it. When he's called on it, he takes his lumps and moves on.

[PatsFan2003]

I only wish everything in life could be as good. Lots of bandwagoners (and long time fans with a distaste for the Sullivan) act like the old Patriots were a rolling clown car until 2001, but they put together some damned talented teams on a shoestring over the years, interspersed with the clown car years (RIP Clive Rush)

The Fairbanks era team could have been a dynasty and then suddenly he was gone. I still don't understand that.

[Frank Grimes]

The Fairbanks era team could have been a dynasty and then suddenly he was gone. I still don't understand that.

@#$%ing Ben Dreith.

[ForWhoForWhat?]

the crackpots have taken over NST and are at odds with the "libs" per se....but we're blaming the libs for driving off the kffl conservatives? Child, please.

[Breed]

[*]Hillary Clinton has moved the needle about as far as it could be moved in matters of sex. I think Obama is personally somewhat sexist, but so be it. When he's called on it, he takes his lumps and moves on.[/LIST]

I really wish I would've given my vote to Hillary when I had the chance.

I think maybe I was being sexist in some ways towards her and I definitely held Bill already being Prez against her.

[Rear Admiral]

I really wish I would've given my vote to Hillary when I had the chance.

I think maybe I was being sexist in some ways towards her and I definitely held Bill already being Prez against her.

Yeah, then we could hear 'what difference does it make' every day from that lunatic. With both of them out of politics now hopefully they'll cannibalize each other, literally. It would make a Big Difference.

[AndromedaPatFan]

Yeah, then we could hear 'what difference does it make' every day from that lunatic. With both of them out of politics now hopefully they'll cannibalize each other, literally. It would make a Big Difference.

When she said that, she was actually correct. Anybody who uses it as a major talking point against her is either being cynically partisan or is being an idiot.

Are you being cynically partisan?

The Administration didn't do a great job of communicating best possible information to the American people, hour by hour. So what?? It's not as if they or anybody else was making important decisions off the information themselves; the decision made, correctly, was the obvious one -- get the survivors safe (duh), figure out what really happened as best we could (duh), don't do anything hasty and irrevocable (duh), and proceed from there.

And by the way -- since there really was a lot of secret CIA activity in Benghazi, there's a pretty good excuse for the Administration being a little coy with the facts. There was no hour-by-hour urgency for them to decide what to declassify.

[Rear Admiral]

When she said that, she was actually correct. Anybody who uses it as a major talking point against her is either being cynically partisan or is being an idiot.

Are you being cynically partisan?

The Administration didn't do a great job of communicating best possible information to the American people, hour by hour. So what?? It's not as if they or anybody else was making important decisions off the information themselves; the decision made, correctly, was the obvious one -- get the survivors safe (duh), figure out what really happened as best we could (duh), don't do anything hasty and irrevocable (duh), and proceed from there.

And by the way -- since there really was a lot of secret CIA activity in Benghazi, there's a pretty good excuse for the Administration being a little coy with the facts. There was no hour-by-hour urgency for them to decide what to declassify.

Or simply obtuse. The question was about what the admin's 'talking points' were immediately following the attacks. The underlying purpose for such questioning was, of course as always, what they knew and when they knew it. It makes a lot of difference. This deflection is nothing but typical of the Clintons, historically, when nothing really matters when they are caught in incompetence, except 'making sure we don't get caught again'. It's expedient condescension, which is their stock in trade. We pay her salary. She represents the USA. If we want to know what, when, how, why - we'll decide if it makes a difference. Answer the questions and quit deflecting. The sooner this lady disappears from 'public service' the better.

And spare me the 'cynically partisan or idiot' choice; you've been carrying Hillary's water for years. Let it go.

[AndromedaPatFan]

And spare me the 'cynically partisan or idiot' choice; you've been carrying Hillary's water for years. Let it go.

I'm hardly going to let it go. This is a cynical attack against an extremely popular politician, out of justified fear of her popularity. (Well, it started as an attack against the Obama Administration more than anything, but post-election it's re-targeted on her.)

You're right, of course, that I was one of her few(er) advocates when she wasn't as popular yet.

[Rear Admiral]

I'm hardly going to let it go. This is a cynical attack against an extremely popular politician, out of justified fear of her popularity. (Well, it started as an attack against the Obama Administration more than anything, but post-election it's re-targeted on her.)

You're right, of course, that I was one of her few(er) advocates when she wasn't as popular yet.

Popular my azz. More people dislike Hillary than even dislike Bill, and that's a substantial bloc itself. If we want to talk about 'idiots' we need to start with that group that is supportive of her. She is and always has been an arrogant, condescending, unqualified, expedient wench - and she's got a lot more to answer for than just Benghazi. The number of people supportive of her is a veritable litmus test of what is wrong with this society.

[ThankGod4Walsh]

the crackpots have taken over NST and are at odds with the "libs" per se....but we're blaming the libs for driving off the kffl conservatives? Child, please.

Put a tampon in.

[AndromedaPatFan]

Popular my azz.

She wins popularity polls. Big-time.

Your azz, by way of contrast ...

[Rear Admiral]

She wins popularity polls. Big-time.

Well, do provide us with links, but 'popularity polls' have never been a barometer of something being right or wrong in reality. It's like I say, anybody who finds her remotely virtuous is not in agreement with my assessment of her. I can leave it at that comfortably.

[AndromedaPatFan]

She is and always has been an arrogant, condescending, unqualified, expedient wench - and she's got a lot more to answer for than just Benghazi. The number of people supportive of her is a veritable litmus test of what is wrong with this society.

Every politician is expedient, she less so than many. She is female, yes, something that evidently bothers you. She is at this point more qualified to be president than many others who get that office, such as for example Obama, Bill Clinton, Bush Jr., Reagan, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, or both Roosevelts.

[RayClay]

Can't say I know anyone who's enlisted in the military just for a free meal. I do know a cat that signed up because he was a crackhead and thought getting away from the old neighborhood would go a long ways in helping to overcome that.

I know quite a few people who signed up for the school opportunities and getting away from sh*t they were trying to leave behind. Gangbangin, ending up in a dead end job, etc.

But they realized there might be fighting involved, yes? That's kind of the point i was trying to get at.