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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbelt View Post
    Roe v Wade involved some riveting first-hand testimony too.

    The woman was never raped.

    “Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you. Never apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time. If you’re right and you know it, speak your mind. Speak your mind. Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.” -Gandhi

    Rational skepticism is not the same thing as being a conspiracy theorist.

    Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream. -Muggeridge

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rear Admiral View Post
    I know what happened. It was 56 days or so they were blasting music and trying every other trick in the book to get them out, including putting secret audio devices in milk cartons they allowed through to them in some kind of 'good faith' negotiation. They had a madman on their hands. They knew he was sexually abusing children, they knew he was likely mentally and physically abusing children. They knew they were fanatics and they had an arsenal. They knew Koresh would occasionally be seen around town - and that's when they should have clipped him. Instead they got into a standoff that was foreseeable and they got those children killed.
    Don't forget the blaring sounds of rabbits having sex 24/7.
    “Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you. Never apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time. If you’re right and you know it, speak your mind. Speak your mind. Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.” -Gandhi

    Rational skepticism is not the same thing as being a conspiracy theorist.

    Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream. -Muggeridge

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThankGod4Walsh View Post
    Roe v Wade involved some riveting first-hand testimony too.

    The woman was never raped.
    You're incredible. Deny, deflect, blame (as you would say).

    Do whatever you can to hold your ground, regardless of evidence to the contrary.
    The consistent factor of all of your dissatisfying relationships and failures is you.

    R.W. 09.21.10 I love you.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rear Admiral View Post
    I know what happened. It was 56 days or so they were blasting music and trying every other trick in the book to get them out, including putting secret audio devices in milk cartons they allowed through to them in some kind of 'good faith' negotiation. They had a madman on their hands. They knew he was sexually abusing children, they knew he was likely mentally and physically abusing children. They knew they were fanatics and they had an arsenal. They knew Koresh would occasionally be seen around town - and that's when they should have clipped him. Instead they got into a standoff that was foreseeable and they got those children killed.
    Oh there were plenty of mistakes made, no doubt.

    But that's a little different than charging Reno with murder no? To go that far, you have to buy into all the conspiracy end of it.
    "the blade itself incites to violence." - Homer

    --

    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - Kung fu Monkey

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbelt View Post
    You're incredible. Deny, deflect, blame.
    Bonus style points for decrying it in others.
    "the blade itself incites to violence." - Homer

    --

    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - Kung fu Monkey

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rear Admiral View Post
    I thought they did have a warrant. Are you saying they didn't?

    Having sex with 14 years old should be against the law; they should be at least 17, if not 18 - how else can THEY themselves consent? And how do we know he wasn't having sex with them before they were even 14? I have heard about cases in Texas where boys of 17-18-19 years old have had sex with a girl of 16 and her parents reported the kid to the Cops and he winds up with a statutory rape conviction and must register as a sex offender for life (I'm not saying that's the best outcome but yeah, if some kid I don't like is schtupping my dumbstruck 15 year old daughter I want some kind of law in place to stop him short of me throwing his carcass in the river).

    It seems like, for somebody griping about others reciting the factory approved 'talking points' you tend to overlook a few relevent nuances.
    They had a warrant. Based on one ATF agent suggesting that people who bought a bunch of legal guns and parts usually were making illegal weapons from it.

    Liberty magazine summed up the evidence in the warrant application:

    Let us suppose that you and your spouse had a horrible fight, characterized by fervent anger, ugly words and nasty accusations, resulting in your spouse moving out of the home. Let us suppose your spouse goes to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and tells them that you are distilling alcohol without a proper license. The ATF checks with your supermarket and learns that you have over the past few years on numerous occasions purchased sugar and on a few occasions purchased yeast, and verifies with your local utility that you have purchased water. You have acquired all the ingredients needed to manufacture alcohol. The ATF also checks the Treasury's records and verifies that you have *22 never acquired a license to make alcohol.
    In every detail, this situation is identical to the Davidians': there is testimony from an angry former close associate anxious to cause you trouble, there is evidence that you acquired the means to manufacture a product whose manufacture requires a license and there is evidence that you had not obtained the license. Is this evidence--"probable cause'--sufficient for you to lose your right to privacy in your home as guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment? [90]

    Actually, the analogy is not quite identical to the Branch Davidian situation. There was no evidence that the Branch Davidians possessed auto sears or conversion kits, which are essential for converting a semiautomatic into an automatic.
    http://www.davekopel.com/waco/lawrev/warrant.htm

    The cases you heard about in Texas didn't involve a 16-year old married girl thanks to parental consent.
    “Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you. Never apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time. If you’re right and you know it, speak your mind. Speak your mind. Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.” -Gandhi

    Rational skepticism is not the same thing as being a conspiracy theorist.

    Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream. -Muggeridge

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbelt View Post
    You're incredible. Deny, deflect, blame (as you would say).

    Do whatever you can to hold your ground, regardless of evidence to the contrary.
    Just saying that one person's testimony needs some corroborated evidence.
    “Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you. Never apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time. If you’re right and you know it, speak your mind. Speak your mind. Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.” -Gandhi

    Rational skepticism is not the same thing as being a conspiracy theorist.

    Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream. -Muggeridge

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThankGod4Walsh View Post
    Just saying that one person's testimony needs some corroborated evidence.
    I provided multiple.
    The multiple people that Dr Perry talked to, and Kiri Jewel.

    It wasn't just one person's testimony.

    He also "married" Michelle Jones at the age of 13.
    The consistent factor of all of your dissatisfying relationships and failures is you.

    R.W. 09.21.10 I love you.

  9. #54
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    BTW...what happens to the "Patriots" that fail the target shooting test?
    "I will punch you." - Wounded Bear

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
    BTW...what happens to the "Patriots" that fail the target shooting test?
    They get sent to the other commune down the road, "Hippietown"

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThankGod4Walsh View Post
    Bigamy is a misdemeanor crime in Texas, and you pay a fine for it and go about your day. Furthermore, Texas recognizes common law marriages and by having a religious ceremony to show the wedding happened while only having one "wife" identified with county documents, one can bang 14-year olds with their parents' consent and if occupying the same domicile claim common law marriage to them if the government starts asking questions.

    So the most they had on Koresh was a misdemeanor. And doubtful it would have even garnered a conviction. The "illegal guns" reason for the warrant was based on the legal purchase of bulk firearms.
    Wow. I don't even know where to begin. But let's start with parents cannot give their consent for their child to have sex with someone at any age. Secondly, regardless of the penalty for polygamy you can only have one legally recognized wife. Had they arrested him he would have gone to jail for many many years.

    You can argue that the Feds should never have been involved. You can argue that they wildly over reacted. You CANNOT argue that Koresh was actively numerous crimes, several of which were felonies.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
    BTW...what happens to the "Patriots" that fail the target shooting test?
    It's Idaho. I'm guessing one of the "lesser" compounds.

    Some gated communites are not for everybody
    As smart as the internet

    We're all Bozo's on this bus.~FST

  13. #58
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    Comments:

    1.) This thread was about a compound for Walsh/Cheesy, but it is not so surprising that when you write words like "compound" & "siege"..."Waco" pops up in your head.

    2.) #1 being said...I pity the citizens of "Waco"...that's all they will ever be known for....

    3.) Yep, the government ****ed it up somewhat..but like RA says...if the government has a warrant...your only play is to let em' in, STFU, and deal with your lawyers. You can never ever beat the U.S. government in a military showdown...you grab them by the balls in the justice system...it's how America works. The BD folks were responsible for that cluster****.

    4.) I thought it was strange that the museum/reflecting pool was off to the right hand side of the map...shouldn't it be in the middle of the park if they are all about the guns?
    "I would not join any club that would have someone like me for a member." - Groucho Marx

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalgaryHawkFan View Post
    They did. And cops died serving it.
    Not cops. Slaves to the New World Order. No reason to mourn them.

  15. #60
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    Once his people murdered police officers serving a warrant, that basically sealed the whole thing.

    They couldn't have backed off and waited for him to go to town after that.

    And the warrant wasn't to arrest him, anyway. It was a search warrant to search his property for illegal weapons. It's 20/20 hindsight to say they should have gotten to him outside of the property.
    The consistent factor of all of your dissatisfying relationships and failures is you.

    R.W. 09.21.10 I love you.

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