Immigration Reform Proposal today

[Superbelt]

The movie Food, Inc. had a good segment on how integrated illegal immigration is with US economic policy.

Our subsidized exports put Mexican farms out of business. And at the same time actively recruiting and welcoming illegal immigrant workers with open arms.

But we go around punishing the people who come here based on a situation we created. Rather than address our own policies and the corporations that knowingly hire them.

[The Q]

I have no problem punishing the businesses that do so either.

But just opening up the borders creates a disaster and would overflow the country in population. Not to mention the regulatory nightmares.

[flyerhawk]

I have no problem punishing the businesses that do so either.

But just opening up the borders creates a disaster and would overflow the country in population. Not to mention the regulatory nightmares.

While I personally support open borders, no one is seriously talking about doing that.

[Payton34]

Border jumpers die all the time. People actually risk their lives to come in and fold our laundry or pick our strawberries.

It's all a shell game. Texas' booming economy is based on illegal (cheap) labor. They'll make noises about doing the right thing, but they won't. We did a hidden camera investigation at Fox that showed how ridiculously easy it was to get fake SS#'s. They cracked down a bit for a while afterwards, but it was all back to business as usual right quick.

Nobody REALLY wants to fix this 'problem.' It's all lip service, all p.r.

I understand ALL of this chf.... People dying due to heat exhaustion or what have you is hardly comparable to being gunned down... While you can take a major leap (And I wouldn't put it past you) and say, "What's the difference? Both are/would be caused by our chosen enforcement of immigration law.", there is an obvious difference in the death by a passive means due to the need to be secretive, and being gunned down because you were caught...

So you envision a society that welcomes illegal immigration with open arms!!! As long as you can get by the machine gun nest set up by the same people who will welcome you..... If you make it? Meh, whatever... Flyer's right in one aspect... This is a pointless exercise.

[Payton34]

You were speaking to the efficacy of such a proposal. While it is certainly true that using lethal on the spot force to deter illegal immigration would greatly reduce it, this is true of just about ANY social problem. But it is pointless to theorize on employing such a plan if we discard it prima facie.

Again, agree on the pointless nature of it... But I definitely don't see the point in trying to say, "If we're going to gun down people trying to enter our country legally, why not gun down people for stealing a pack of Juicy Fruit from 7-11?"...

[Grimjack]

How is that different? People in Mexico ARE escaping an oppressive regime (economic if not political). They have little to no hope. And people ARE welcoming them with not only open arms, but open check-books. (hey, I need a nanny, a garnder, a housebuilder in the hot S.W., a fruit picker etc etc etc.)

They're not only welcoming them they're PAYING them. :)

Are the Mexicans Locked in ? No of course their not

[The Q]

While I personally support open borders, no one is seriously talking about doing that.

Sorry, if you're not closing them, you're opening them.

Less deterrent = more opportunity

[Grimjack]

See East Germany. Razor wire, dogs, mines, machine guns. People still crossed.

Now add up what it'll cost to add 'turret guns' across thousands of miles of border north and south. And man them.

Masturbatory fantasy.

Do you have numbers ? the Avg amount of people who made it across alive per year ?

For the record I'm not for mowing down people who are just trying to migrate

[Payton34]

Sorry, if you're not closing them, you're opening them.

Less deterrent = more opportunity

Yes and no..... Right now our border security is like a big game of International "Red Rover".... If you can break through? You're in!!!! If you can't? Go back and try again....

[Payton34]

Do you have numbers ? the Avg amount of people who made it across alive per year ?

For the record I'm not for mowing down people who are just trying to migrate

Well I'd also imagine it would be far cheaper to man our borders in such fashion than to have bases in tens of hundreds of foreign countries.... Gotta be cheaper to keep our people at home guarding our country...

But like you, I'm not actually FOR the "Mow 'Em Down" policy, but...

[The Q]

Yes and no..... Right now our border security is like a big game of International "Red Rover".... If you can break through? You're in!!!! If you can't? Go back and try again....

And the try again part means there's little deterrent. It's like they can just hit the reset button.

And we should be kicking out more people.

[CalgaryHawkFan]

So you envision a society that welcomes illegal immigration with open arms!!!

No, I see a society that is totally contradictory about the issue, saying that it's horrible and something needs to be done, and yet benefitting from the low cost labour that it affords.

[Augustus]

Texas' booming economy is based on illegal (cheap) labor.

Bull.
The industries primarily driving Texas' economic growth are healthcare, energy, and tech (software and telecom). As I sit here and look out my office window on the largest medical center in the world, I can't help but wonder which of these big industries is so dependent on cheap, illegal labor.

[Payton34]

No, I see a society that is totally contradictory about the issue, saying that it's horrible and something needs to be done, and yet benefitting from the low cost labour that it affords.

But see what Q is saying? He's right.

There's nothing very contradictory about our policies at all right now... We don't punish businesses for hiring illegals, and we don't exactly make it that difficult for illegals to cross AND reside here....

[CalgaryHawkFan]

Do you have numbers ? the Avg amount of people who made it across alive per year ?

For the record I'm not for mowing down people who are just trying to migrate

I'd have to google it. But I think the point stands, since how long was the East German border? Tiny by comparison to what even the American southern border would be. Let alone the longest undefended border in the world (US and Canada)