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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Payton34 View Post
    but there can be no arguing the effectiveness of such a tactic.
    Sure there can. See East Germany.
    "the blade itself incites to violence." - Homer

    --

    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - Kung fu Monkey

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunchuckz View Post
    We are all on this earth together, what people do in Asia can affect events here in the US. We aren't in separate aquariums. So, get used to the idea that we the people of the world have to unite to solve world issues.
    World issues don't include sovereign problems like gun control, yet countries like China have put out press statements requesting the U.S. Govt "disarm" the American people.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2...ns-Be-Disarmed

    Notice that Breibart picks up this story and reports it to our citizens, yet the govt/globalist controlled alphabet media ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, Fox News don't show up in a google search when querying "china disarm us citizens nbc", etc. You get alternative media. Is this a coincidence? NO WAY is that a coincidence. To ignore a story like this is outright journalistic fraud. You can't rely on the mainstream media anymore. People, you need to dump the mainstream media. They are obviously controlled and are omitting HUGE stories of national importance CONSTANTLY. I've outlined many big stories not once touched on by the media in my "Government Controlled Media" thread.
    As defined by the Official Terrorism Training For Law Enforcement:
    What Is Domestic Terrorism?
    Extreme force and violence perpetrated by
    the people government of a country, within that country,
    for the purpose of coercing its government and population public
    into modifying its behavior"

    You are either with Our Constitution or you are with The Terrorists!

    Government...if it leans to the left it eventually means theft. - tlc

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalgaryHawkFan View Post
    See East Germany. Razor wire, dogs, mines, machine guns. People still crossed.

    Now add up what it'll cost to add 'turret guns' across thousands of miles of border north and south. And man them.

    Masturbatory fantasy.

    I am not supporting the idea, but the East Germany scenario was much different, as people were escaping an oppressive regime and being welcomed with semi-open arms.

    I don't think the American people have much stomach for killing women and children for crossing an imaginary line.
    Fear is the mind killer

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunchuckz View Post
    I am not supporting the idea, but the East Germany scenario was much different, as people were escaping an oppressive regime and being welcomed with semi-open arms.

    I don't think the American people have much stomach for killing women and children for crossing an imaginary line.
    How is that different? People in Mexico ARE escaping an oppressive regime (economic if not political). They have little to no hope. And people ARE welcoming them with not only open arms, but open check-books. (hey, I need a nanny, a garnder, a housebuilder in the hot S.W., a fruit picker etc etc etc.)

    They're not only welcoming them they're PAYING them. :)
    "the blade itself incites to violence." - Homer

    --

    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - Kung fu Monkey

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelittlecheese View Post
    World issues don't include sovereign problems like gun control, yet countries like China have put out press statements requesting the U.S. Govt "disarm" the American people.
    (...)
    Why should we care what China is saying about us in a state media op ed?

    Why should any real news source bother to report on it?
    The consistent factor of all of your dissatisfying relationships and failures is you.

    R.W. 09.21.10 I love you.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyerhawk View Post
    Good to see you would like to see us murder people doing nothing wrong other than seeking a way to improve their lives. You are a true advocate of freedom!
    I have no problem people wanting to improve their lives, but they're not better than anyone who does the same thing illegally already in this country.

    They should do it the right way.
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

    "Just because you're the lone voice in the wilderness, it doesn't mean you're wrong."
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalgaryHawkFan View Post
    Sure there can. See East Germany.
    Difference between trying to get out and trying to get in...

    Difference in scale of motivation I'd imagine...

    Not trying to claim that it would be the first closed border...
    "Yeah, everything that guy just said is Bullsh!t..... Thank you.." -Vincent LaGuardia Gambini-

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalgaryHawkFan View Post
    How is that different? People in Mexico ARE escaping an oppressive regime (economic if not political). They have little to no hope. And people ARE welcoming them with not only open arms, but open check-books. (hey, I need a nanny, a garnder, a housebuilder in the hot S.W., a fruit picker etc etc etc.)

    They're not only welcoming them they're PAYING them. :)
    I think you're smart enough to understand that if we would have gotten to a point where we're gunning down border-jumpers, that we've also made it highly illegal to employ illegals..... Again, not to say impossible, but....

    Recall, in your East Germany example, all these people needed to do was get out and they were safe.... In this scenario these people are crossing into a land where the guns are trying to keep them out and they are not welcome in general population in their destination...
    "Yeah, everything that guy just said is Bullsh!t..... Thank you.." -Vincent LaGuardia Gambini-

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    I have no problem people wanting to improve their lives, but they're not better than anyone who does the same thing illegally already in this country.

    They should do it the right way.
    Is the right way the same way we did it? Invade a populated land, subjugate and kill the natives. Take over.

    The whole Illegal Immigration issue is a lot like when people get up in arms as a new development proposal comes to the field that their property overlooks or that they jog past every day. And they complain about the expected traffic, or the character of their community changing. Ignoring the fact that their house was built on the field that someone else was enjoying looking at a few years ago.
    The consistent factor of all of your dissatisfying relationships and failures is you.

    R.W. 09.21.10 I love you.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Payton34 View Post
    I think you're smart enough to understand that if we would have gotten to a point where we're gunning down border-jumpers, that we've also made it highly illegal to employ illegals..... Again, not to say impossible, but....

    Recall, in your East Germany example, all these people needed to do was get out and they were safe.... In this scenario these people are crossing into a land where the guns are trying to keep them out and they are not welcome in general population in their destination...
    No I don't think those two go hand in hand at all. It's kinda' like what we're seeing with gun control right now. Doing what should be done, and what will be political suicide - very different things.

    We're never going to see America crack down on people who hire illegals, especially not soccer mom or small business owner. What we see instead is window dressing.

    I've argued for years that a HUGE part of the solution would be to make LEGAL immigration less byzantine. It's that way for a reason.
    "the blade itself incites to violence." - Homer

    --

    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - Kung fu Monkey

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Payton34 View Post
    Again, I'm not for it due to the brutal nature of it, but there can be no arguing the effectiveness of such a tactic.
    Why stop there? If we are completely ignoring the sanctity of human life, why not start using it for other problems?

    Go 20 MPH over the speed limit? Get a gunned down by turrets on the side of the roads? Blow .15 on a breathlyzer, instant execution.

    Sure, we might need to break a few eggs, but we will MOST CERTAINLY eliminate speeding and DUIs.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalgaryHawkFan View Post
    No I don't think those two go hand in hand at all. It's kinda' like what we're seeing with gun control right now. Doing what should be done, and what will be political suicide - very different things.

    We're never going to see America crack down on people who hire illegals, especially not soccer mom or small business owner. What we see instead is window dressing.

    I've argued for years that a HUGE part of the solution would be to make LEGAL immigration less byzantine. It's that way for a reason.
    Phhhht, well we're never going to see America crack down on border-jumping with a "shoot on site" policy either, right? But saying IF we were to get to the point where that IS our policy, I think it would be safe to say that we'd have removed the most obvious incentives for border jumping as well....

    Seriously, you can imagine a country where they will mow you down if they see you trying to enter illegally, BUT..... If you happen to elude the machine gun fire, there's a good job waiting for you???

    HUGE logic gap there for me... If that type of incongruous policy seems plausible to you? Then okay... Either way, incentive was only one pretty major difference with your East Germany comparison...
    "Yeah, everything that guy just said is Bullsh!t..... Thank you.." -Vincent LaGuardia Gambini-

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyerhawk View Post
    Why stop there? If we are completely ignoring the sanctity of human life, why not start using it for other problems?

    Go 20 MPH over the speed limit? Get a gunned down by turrets on the side of the roads? Blow .15 on a breathlyzer, instant execution.

    Sure, we might need to break a few eggs, but we will MOST CERTAINLY eliminate speeding and DUIs.
    Why ask me "Why stop there?" when I'm not advocating it in the first place?

    You seem to be trying to pick a fight where there isn't one flyer... But bottom line is most certainly if the punishment for speeding was death? I think its safe to say that you'd see MUCH more compliance with posted speed limits...

    As for why the thought even comes up with regard to illegal immigration? Hmmmm, borders, national security, etc... I'll let you figure that one out...
    "Yeah, everything that guy just said is Bullsh!t..... Thank you.." -Vincent LaGuardia Gambini-

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Payton34 View Post
    Why ask me "Why stop there?" when I'm not advocating it in the first place?

    You seem to be trying to pick a fight where there isn't one flyer... But bottom line is most certainly if the punishment for speeding was death? I think its safe to say that you'd see MUCH more compliance with posted speed limits...

    As for why the thought even comes up with regard to illegal immigration? Hmmmm, borders, national security, etc... I'll let you figure that one out...
    You were speaking to the efficacy of such a proposal. While it is certainly true that using lethal on the spot force to deter illegal immigration would greatly reduce it, this is true of just about ANY social problem. But it is pointless to theorize on employing such a plan if we discard it prima facie.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Payton34 View Post
    Phhhht, well we're never going to see America crack down on border-jumping with a "shoot on site" policy either, right? But saying IF we were to get to the point where that IS our policy, I think it would be safe to say that we'd have removed the most obvious incentives for border jumping as well....

    Seriously, you can imagine a country where they will mow you down if they see you trying to enter illegally, BUT..... If you happen to elude the machine gun fire, there's a good job waiting for you???

    HUGE logic gap there for me... If that type of incongruous policy seems plausible to you? Then okay... Either way, incentive was only one pretty major difference with your East Germany comparison...
    Border jumpers die all the time. People actually risk their lives to come in and fold our laundry or pick our strawberries.

    It's all a shell game. Texas' booming economy is based on illegal (cheap) labor. They'll make noises about doing the right thing, but they won't. We did a hidden camera investigation at Fox that showed how ridiculously easy it was to get fake SS#'s. They cracked down a bit for a while afterwards, but it was all back to business as usual right quick.

    Nobody REALLY wants to fix this 'problem.' It's all lip service, all p.r.
    "the blade itself incites to violence." - Homer

    --

    "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - Kung fu Monkey

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