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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    That's my point though, nobody thought Flacco or Ryan were going to be what they are either. I think this year's class is being underrated for a few different reasons. Mostly due to last year's class being so highly regarded and them being the comparison now.
    So that is why Ryan went 3rd overall? Because no one thought he was going to be a good QB?

    Uh, OK.

  2. #47
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    That's not what I said. He just wasn't seen as a can't miss prospect. Him going 3rd wasn't a well known thing before the draft and if people thought he would be what he was today, he would have went #1 without question. He was talked about in the top 5 area, but so are the guys we are discussing. So really I'm not sure what your point is.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  3. #48
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    Flacco was considered a project, but Matty Ice was a far safer pick coming out of college than any of these QBs. He was a 6-4 college QB from a major program who had run a pro-style offense and looked good doing it. None of these QBs have that resume. Geno Smith arguably comes closest in terms of measurables and performance but there are questions about the offense he ran. The rest of the guys are either projects (Glennon, Manuel) or shorter QBs with less than ideal physical traits (Wilson, Nassib).

    I just think that your comparison is flawed. In a general sense, yes you take QBs over OTs or other positions even if it means overvaluing a QB some. I think everyone understands that basic point. But in this draft, taking QBs too high is likely going to prove to be a big mistake for most teams.

  4. #49
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    He definitely wasn't a can't-miss prospect like Luck or RG3 but I wouldn't compare them just because of that. I don't know what the pre-draft grades would compare at but just because they are both consider to be not a super blue chip doesn't mean they are the same type of player.

  5. #50
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    I remember the Matt Ryan draft pretty well, and I think the question surrounding Ryan was whether he was a finished product and therefore had limited upside as an NFL starter, or whether he could become an elite talent.

    I think there are questions about whether most of these current QBs are NFL starters. That's a significant difference.

  6. #51
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    He had decision making issues as well.

    I'm not guaranteeing that any of these guys will be Matt Ryan, but I think they are all being written off too quickly.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    He had decision making issues as well.

    I'm not guaranteeing that any of these guys will be Matt Ryan, but I think they are all being written off too quickly.
    I'm not writing them off, just not willing to risk a high pick on one of them. If a team trades back and gets more value, go for it. But I see no reason to risk the #10 pick on a guy like Glennon.

    At this point Wilson is the only one I'd consider that high.

  8. #53
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    I don't mean to suggest that you aren't welcome to your opinion, I just think the risk of this group has been overstated. Similarly to Ryan/Flacco.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    That's not what I said. He just wasn't seen as a can't miss prospect. Him going 3rd wasn't a well known thing before the draft and if people thought he would be what he was today, he would have went #1 without question. He was talked about in the top 5 area, but so are the guys we are discussing. So really I'm not sure what your point is.
    Yep, Matt Ryan was easily a top ten pick before the draft and most likely top 5. I remember that the one of the first mocks - even before the Senior Bowl, I think - had him going to the Vikes at #17 and I just laughed. Sure, it'd be awesome if he'd last that long, but the odds were basically zero. And yeah, it's still early in the review so maybe one of the QBs is going to start to stand out. But I haven't seen Glennon, Wilson, Nassib and Smith all talked about as being top 5 picks. Geno Smith is the only one that fits that bill and I saw a mock that had Barkley at 8. Seems like Glennon was also mocked in the top ten by somebody or another.

  10. #55
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    I've seen most of them mocked pretty high at this early point, earlier than 17 for sure. The ESPN guys have Glennon as their top QB and multiple sites have Wilson and Geno at #1. Nassib is getting some mention at 8, though that's a different circumstance obviously.

    I mean, I'm not here to disparage Ryan, but I could easily use the same line you use about him about Geno. He's easily a top 10 pick and most likely top 5. I'd be shocked if Geno makes it by both KC and Philly.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    I don't mean to suggest that you aren't welcome to your opinion, I just think the risk of this group has been overstated. Similarly to Ryan/Flacco.
    You keep adding Ryan in there and I don't see it. Teams don't take a risky player at #3. As for Flacco, I don't think that the risk was overstated; it's just that it paid off for the Ravens although they've been stewing about how and whether to extend his contract. He's getting a lot of cred for his playoff performance and while I didn't see the Pats game, he was fairly unimpressive against the Broncos. If it wasn't for horrible coverage by Bailey and the worst safety play ever by Moore, he would've finished with less than a 50% completion percentage, less than 200 yards and no TDs.

  12. #57
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    I'm sure Andy Reid will want a QB in KC. Whether it is the right pick is another story.

  13. #58
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    Flacco isn't perfect, but what he is is something that teams like KC,Philly,Jax,Cle,Buff and AZ would all be happy to get with their top 10 pick IMO. I also think a guy like Glennon is at least as good a prospect as Flacco was. It doesn't mean he'll work out the same, but it does mean you have to consider him in, at the very least, the back end of the top 10.

    I added Ryan because I feel its a similar situation. Teams don't take huge risks at 3, that's a fair statement. However, I'd be surprised if at least 2 QBs aren't gone by 7. I don't think they will be seen to be as big of a risk as they are made out to be here.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoViking View Post
    I'm sure Andy Reid will want a QB in KC. Whether it is the right pick is another story.
    I do agree with this. Even if it does end up being a reach, he'll probably make the move. I don't see how a franchise that QB starved, who just hired the league's most pass happy coach(arguably at least) and has the #1 pick, can pass on a QB there.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    Flacco isn't perfect, but what he is is something that teams like KC,Philly,Jax,Cle,Buff and AZ would all be happy to get with their top 10 pick IMO. I also think a guy like Glennon is at least as good a prospect as Flacco was. It doesn't mean he'll work out the same, but it does mean you have to consider him in, at the very least, the back end of the top 10.

    I added Ryan because I feel its a similar situation. Teams don't take huge risks at 3, that's a fair statement. However, I'd be surprised if at least 2 QBs aren't gone by 7. I don't think they will be seen to be as big of a risk as they are made out to be here.
    It wouldn't surprise me to see 2 by the 7th pick, but there are some teams desperate for QBs (as always) and they might be reaching. Just look at 2011 when we had four QBs taken by the 12th pick and three are still unsure about their pick. You'll get that with any position, but the QB is the one that teams invest the most in and whom it costs the most when you get it wrong (although with the rookie cap that may be less of an issue now).

    It's not so much that these QBs are a risk. They just don't look like franchise QBs to many of us (and of those many, I'm not a very good judge since I've seen very little of most of them). So if those teams don't take them in round one, the one of them will probably be available in round two for them despite mockers putting them in the top ten.

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