Draft Order Possibilities

[ThinMan]

If we can take anything from reading between the lines of Colbert/Tomlin/ownerships pressers and statements from this offseason so far, it's that they're going to be looking long and hard at defenders(LBs in particular)/running backs in this draft. Likely another QB too.

On offense, if we lose Mike Wallace, then our plan would have to be Ben scrambling around and making crazy plays.

You mean pretty much exactly what the coaches caved on and let him do, with Wallace mind you, after he rushed back from the chest injury? That worked out great. :)

I don't think keeping/losing Wallace will have any bearing on that. Ben wants to play street ball no matter who is calling the plays. I think the second half of '12 proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[MarkItAZero!]

Ansah is not showing well at the Sr Bowl. I keep hearing, flashes raw talent, by a lot of folks, but is far from a lock to be a top tier player.

Got that from ESPN insider and scouts Inc. They are talking up John Jenkins big time as the best player on either side.

[BobbleHead]

If we can take anything from reading between the lines of Colbert/Tomlin/ownerships pressers and statements from this offseason so far, it's that they're going to be looking long and hard at defenders(LBs in particular)/running backs in this draft. Likely another QB too.



You mean pretty much exactly what the coaches caved on and let him do, with Wallace mind you, after he rushed back from the chest injury? That worked out great. :)

I don't think keeping/losing Wallace will have any bearing on that. Ben wants to play street ball no matter who is calling the plays. I think the second half of '12 proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I'm not sure he had a great option to do other things. Their normal offense wasn't causing any defensive coordinators headaches. Personally, I think Haley is a major problem with that. He seems to want to have 10 play, 80 yard drives, and I'm not sure his squad is built for that all the time. It's just my opinion. I'm aware that was with a whining, eccentric Mike Wallace, so without him, there will be less space on the field, champs.

[ThinMan]

We really don't know how much less space there will be on the field without Wallace yet, chief. That's the thing. He isn't the only fast guy in the world(or on the team, for that matter). The element he brings can be replaced. I mean, they are permitted to attempt to replace it. They aren't required to NOT bring in another deep threat when he leaves...unless that was snuck into the new CBA or somethin'.

The Steelers were able to win before Mike Wallace entered the league. They will be able to win after he leaves the team.

Look, I'm not the biggest Todd Haley fan...or a Todd Haley fan at all, as far as that goes...but the Steelers pass offense was more efficient, and was beginning to score a bit more consistently in the RZ by involving Miller more, prior to Ben getting hurt/rushing back/going back to more "let's go chuck it!!" plays.

Not saying it was the end all be all, or that it was the panacea to all their ills....but it was working better last season than the "You run down to the corner of Stanwix and BotA, jump over the hood of the black Chevy, then cut down past the T station on Liberty....I'll fake it to ya." version that Ben politicked for upon his return. That's all I was pointing out.

If I'm being honest I'm probably equally concerned, if not more, about Miller not being 100% to start the year as I am about them letting Wallace go. Ben is going to be Ben, and Heath bails him out a LOT when he starts streetballin' it.

[BobbleHead]

Miller's a stud. I actually like TE Travis Kelce out of Cincinnati in probably the 3-4th round area. We could use a 2nd TE, as we could use a lot of things.

Wallace's deep speed won't be easy to replace. I hope they pull it off. It would be fun to have a new WR like Justin Hunter with his potential.

How bout the Pirates rotation?

[MarkItAZero!]

Pirates rotation?

Feast or famine. Which McDonald are we going to see? 1st half or 2nd half. Will AJ Burnett continue to impress? Which Liriano do we see? 2010 version or the version that has been pretty much horrendous since then? Our long term future with starting pitching hinges on Cole and Taillon, plain and simple. I think Cole will get called up (barring a real ****ty start to 2013, knock on wood) and Taillon will be up in 2014.

[ThinMan]

Miller's a stud. I actually like TE Travis Kelce out of Cincinnati in probably the 3-4th round area. We could use a 2nd TE, as we could use a lot of things.

Wallace's deep speed won't be easy to replace. I hope they pull it off. It would be fun to have a new WR like Justin Hunter with his potential.

How bout the Pirates rotation?

Kelce is probably my favorite TE from the group that they can reasonably expect to get in the mid-rounds. He's a lot like a lower-cased version of Heath. Fairly well-rounded. I like Escobar too for similar reasons. Will need some polish, but with Heath still around he'd have some time to get it.

Pirates?

I think Burnett and Wandy will both be okay, just have to expect AJ's age is going to cause him to start missing time at some point. He's been durable for a while now....but he's 36 and relies on the hard stuff a good bit. Has to be adding up by now, you'd think. He'll probably be fine as long as he's healthy. As good as last year? Unclear, but being in the NL certainly benefits swing-and-miss types like him a ton.

Wandy is pretty much a "what you see is what you get" guy at this point. His K rates have dropped the last two years, but so have his BB/9. H/9 spiked a little in '12, but it was at his career norms after his trade to Pitty. Pretty much stands to reason since the Pirates D>>>Astros D, I guess, and that'll help him this year too. I think Wandy will be just fine, albeit vanilla.

After those two is where the fun starts. McDonald's an enigma, Liriano as a 4th or 5th guy is fantastic...that's where you want your "all or nothing" guys....but he's as likely to be asked to be the #3 as the #5 and probably as likely to flame out completely too, and Karstens is oddly productive when healthy which isn't often. He also looks like a freaking goblin. :) Expecting more than 100-120-ish innings from JK is probably asking too much.

McDonald is likely the pivot for how the starting staff winds up. If he's "good James McDonald" then that makes everyone below him in the order considerably better. Between Locke, McPhereson, Liriano and Karstens they've got plenty of innings to round out the 4th and 5th spots even if JK does is normal thing(misses a month+). Plus, they've got Cole looming come July. And there's always the chance that Liriano has a honeymoon year with a move to the NL(I actually won't be surprised by that at all. His stuff is nuts, just has to control it better).

If he's "terribad James McDonald" then now you're asking Karstens/Locke/McPhereson to be something that they aren't. Particularly if Liriano struggles.

Thinking their rotation should be at least "okay." The offense though..... :(

[BobbleHead]

G-Dang, what a Pirates post!

I have almost a man crush on Jeff Karstens. His production in relation to his talent is astounding. The guy battles. It annoyed me when they let him walk, and I was surprised another team didn't scoop him up.

I kept thinking about what Justin Upton would have cost yesterday. I didn't think the Braves had to pay that much. The D Backs would've tried to pry Neil Walker. I'm not sure if I'd want him to be the centerpiece, but I would've considered it. I bet they would've had interest in McPherson and Locke as a secondary piece in a potential deal.

I'm hoping at least one of the Travis Snider/Jerry Sands combo figures it out and hits some dingers. I expect Marte to play pretty well. Maybe I'm naive on that one. I was reading other teams didn't value him as highly as the Pirates do. Even so, McCutchen needs some help. He's such a monster.

[ThinMan]

I think the fact no one touched JK once he hit the market speaks volumes. Pirates brass, IIRC, stated they gambled on Karstens' non-tender because they didn't feel he could hold up over a whole season, so he wasn't worth nearly 4 million to them. I think the rest of the league proved them right, this one time at least. Doesn't appear that the rest of the league thinks he can hold up over a full season either. Otherwise he'd have got a deal. Freaking Correia got nearly 10 million for 2, didn't he? Karstens is better, per inning, but Correia is far more likely to pitch upwards of 150 innings. Karstens has done it once....and hurt himself doing it. Then got injured again the following year. Only logical reason I can come up with. Some guys are just destined to be swingmen. Nothing wrong with that if you're effective.

I like Upton well enough on the field....but he's sort of a headcase. Plus, the Pirates already strikeout so much as a team I don't know that another high K in the middle of the lineup is a great idea. Particularly at the cost it'd likely have taken. Keep in mind, Upton had a no trade clause. Braves may have gotten off a bit because the Dbacks were a)ready to be rid of Upton for whatever reason, and b)didn't require his permission to give him to Atlanta. Reports of a much, much more lucrative deal offered by the Mariners a week or so ago were out there....but Upton killed it because they were on his no trade list.

I like Snider a little. Sands looks like a AAAA type to me(and did all his gaudy damage in the hitter friendly PCL). Marte....doesn't excite me as much as a lot of people. I think he's going to be a good, solid, player. Until he learns to manage his strikezone better I doubt he's going to be "the second coming of McCuctchen" that's being predicted.


Okay....enough Pirates stuff from me. People are bound to revolt if we keep it up.

[Canada]

watching this Senior Bowl and all I gotta say is.....

I wouldn't touch any of those QBs.....no friggin way.



Pirates....Go Dougie Frobel Go!!!

[Canada]

and I wouldn't touch Denard Robinson at any position......I was thinking he could of been another Randle El but....no friggin way.


Sio Moore looked alright at the LB position.

[ThinMan]

watching this Senior Bowl and all I gotta say is.....

I wouldn't touch any of those QBs.....no friggin way.

I agree(to a point. Everyone can be drafted if it's late enough)....outside of Manuel. I actually thought he helped himself a bit. He's got all the measurables needed(size, arm, etc), is accurate and mobile, but needs to improve his decision making. He has the arm to challenge teams deep, but doesn't always try it enough. Made some nice throws when he was in there. Was sort of hoping he'd be a guy they may be able to snake in 4-5 as a developmental type since he actually knows how to play a traditional dropback style, but isn't some cement-footed goon. I expect his arrow will be pointing up a bit now.

and I wouldn't touch Denard Robinson at any position......I was thinking he could of been another Randle El but....no friggin way.

I really don't want any part of him either, buuut.....the guy WAS playing a brand new position(for like 4 days) before the game and has been doing it one handed. I don't think what we saw out of him on Saturday should be indicative of how he winds up. That said, I don't think he has a hope in hell of being a Randle El type. Randle El could throw. Robinson cannot.

Ansah looked way better in the game than he did in practices.

[Canada]

I was interested in seeing how L.Jones was going to do.....he sucked.
Had no feel whatsoever for the rush, was zeroing on his target all the time...just horrible.

[BobbleHead]

I was interested in seeing how L.Jones was going to do.....he sucked.
Had no feel whatsoever for the rush, was zeroing on his target all the time...just horrible.

Completely agree. I was targeting him as a 3rd round possibility. I really don't like any of the mid round QB's. Hell, I don't like any of the top tier QB's except for Geno, and in that case, I'm insanely biased.

[ThinMan]

Jones has done nothing but nosedive since last year. He probably wishes he'd have declared now.

I don't think any QB in this class is without flaws. Wouldn't want to be looking for a quarterback this year at all, in the sense that I had to spend a first on one.

At the risk of sounding like a UT homer(which I am decidedly not), I like Tyler Bray more than just about any of the rest of this crop.