Cyber Pearl Harbor

[zirc]

Exactly, china could destroy us without even firing a shot in anger... A simple
"Give us all our money back now" would render us a third world country over night.

They can't do that.

[Grimjack]

And then the us dollar would drop drastically in value from a refusal loan, and wed never get another cent from anyone.

Btw anyone who thinks iran is a cakewalk militarily is stuck on our own propaganda teet. Iran has f-14 tomcats, the world best AA sam,aagun,flack equipment. And a fighting force that is used to degending itself from invasion.

Going by a sun tzu talley we are in the minus column which would spell an ugly conflict. They know us very well and we know little to nothong about irans battle capibilities. Hell 6 months ago we had np idea they could hack a cia drone and steal it while we are using it.

Too many unknown factors and high risk/low reward scenerios. War with iran would eqial mutual destruction, i dont think people understand that.

Sun Tzu, You fancy your self a student ?

Mutual destruction ? What capabilities does Iran have to destroy the US of A ?





F-14's. Tomcats ? Yeah I'm sure thier up and running after 30+ years of having to scroung and steal parts.

[Grimjack]

Cyber-terrorism is the latest front in the "we are never safe parade". Seriously, what computer technology has never been hacked given enough time? What do you do to defend against it? You perpetually try to make yourself more "hack-resistant" which immediately leads to a better ways of hacking...

I'm not saying the threat isn't real, but it feels like they want us jumping back under school-desks like people did in the 50's...

Criminals, industry and goverment have been at it for somethime.

There's a reason I bring up Ac/Dc's Thunderstruck up in Iran threads. Everytime the Irainians fire up thier computers in thier nuke facilities(some or all I don't know) The song comes on blairing away or so I have read.

[Bad Scooter]

Cyber-terrorism is the latest front in the "we are never safe parade".

So long as no one f***s with my Farmville.

[Vin Lombardi]

Iranian hackers renewed a campaign of cyberattacks against U.S. banks this week, targeting Capital One Financial Corp. COF -0.90% and BB&T Corp. BBT -4.68% and openly defying U.S. warnings to halt, U.S. officials and others involved in the investigation into the attacks said.

The attacks, which disrupted the banks' websites, showed the ability of the Iranian group to sustain its cyberassault on the nation's largest banks for a fifth week, even as it announced its plans to attack in advance.

U.S. officials said the attacks against banks, and others against Middle Eastern energy companies, were sponsored by the Iranian government and approved at high levels as part of a low-grade cyberwar that officials warned could lead to retaliation.

Unclear is at what point attacks on individual banks constitute an assault on the overall financial system that would call for a forceful response from the U.S. military, which has formed a "Cyber Command" to help defend government computers and critical civilian networks.

"It is a fair question," said a senior U.S. official. "I am not sure I have the answer to it."

Iranian officials didn't respond to requests to comment.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

[AndromedaPatFan]

I found http://pandodaily.com/2012/10/19/wev...chtick-before/ unreadable, but skimming it reminded me that we've been hearing these claims for a while ...

It also contains the sensible idea that power plant control systems and the like should be physically isolated from the internet (i.e. via an "air gap").

[USAFspeedboy]

Sun Tzu, You fancy your self a student ?

Mutual destruction ? What capabilities does Iran have to destroy the US of A ?





F-14's. Tomcats ? Yeah I'm sure thier up and running after 30+ years of having to scroung and steal parts.

For starters, we cant put boots on the ground, fighting iraq was different, a population that hated sadaam didnt care what we did, iranians WILL fight back, we wont find support and we would never find people who would assist us.

2. Every defeated army in history had one thing in common... Ignorance, they did not know their enemy. They didnt know what the tactics would be, and we have no idea what irans military looks like. Iran could have a squadron of SU-37s or mig 4.5s and we would be fugged. Tomcats are still operational and from land based surfaces are more capable than f-16s and f-18s.

3. What we do know is iran has a large well trained, well treated and healthy army with minimal draftees. Iraq failed becuase 70% of its forces were forced into uniform. Iran has proffesional soldiers.

4. Iran has the largest sam cache in modern history. Ithey could have as many as 5,000 sam sites... Do you realize the cost, man power,lives, time and aircraft it would take to render air supperiority?

5. The united states of america has never, since the first person dropped a hand gernade from his sopwith camel bi plane fought a war without air supperiority. It is the ONLY way we know how to fight. Its so important, that during desert storm 90% of all munitions droped were toware the disablment of the enemies air capabilities. The first mission ground forces undertook was capturing baghdad international during oif.

7. We are comming out of a recession. We cant afford the cost of fighting a gentlemans war..(planes vs plans, men in uniform on both sides) it costs more to fight a gentlemans war than a gorrilla war.

8. We do not have the moral high ground, we do not have the support of the people on either side and we do not have the capabilities of a fast or quick victory.
That is the most important battle lessons

A) fight without fighting if possible
B)attack what is weak, and avoid what is strong
C)me the higher moral authority
D)be certain of yourself, your capabilities and that of your enemy
E)set reachable unwaivering goals and gives coherent clear orders to reach those objectives
F) opperate in deception, never in the open
G)supply your army on the spoils of war, use your enemies rations to bolster your own.
Lastly and THE most important rule
H-Z) no army has benefited from prolonged war, be swift, be overwhelming, be ruthless and be un waivering.

We cannot reach those goals if we are being realistic.

[Yellowknifer]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

There's absolutely no reason to believe the US government about anything. Hope you know that by now.

[Grimjack]

For starters, we cant put boots on the ground, fighting iraq was different, a population that hated sadaam didnt care what we did, iranians WILL fight back, we wont find support and we would never find people who would assist us.

2. Every defeated army in history had one thing in common... Ignorance, they did not know their enemy. They didnt know what the tactics would be, and we have no idea what irans military looks like. Iran could have a squadron of SU-37s or mig 4.5s and we would be fugged. Tomcats are still operational and from land based surfaces are more capable than f-16s and f-18s.

3. What we do know is iran has a large well trained, well treated and healthy army with minimal draftees. Iraq failed becuase 70% of its forces were forced into uniform. Iran has proffesional soldiers.

4. Iran has the largest sam cache in modern history. Ithey could have as many as 5,000 sam sites... Do you realize the cost, man power,lives, time and aircraft it would take to render air supperiority?

5. The united states of america has never, since the first person dropped a hand gernade from his sopwith camel bi plane fought a war without air supperiority. It is the ONLY way we know how to fight. Its so important, that during desert storm 90% of all munitions droped were toware the disablment of the enemies air capabilities. The first mission ground forces undertook was capturing baghdad international during oif.

7. We are comming out of a recession. We cant afford the cost of fighting a gentlemans war..(planes vs plans, men in uniform on both sides) it costs more to fight a gentlemans war than a gorrilla war.

8. We do not have the moral high ground, we do not have the support of the people on either side and we do not have the capabilities of a fast or quick victory.
That is the most important battle lessons

A) fight without fighting if possible
B)attack what is weak, and avoid what is strong
C)me the higher moral authority
D)be certain of yourself, your capabilities and that of your enemy
E)set reachable unwaivering goals and gives coherent clear orders to reach those objectives
F) opperate in deception, never in the open
G)supply your army on the spoils of war, use your enemies rations to bolster your own.
Lastly and THE most important rule
H-Z) no army has benefited from prolonged war, be swift, be overwhelming, be ruthless and be un waivering.

We cannot reach those goals if we are being realistic.

1) As far as boots on the ground,other than FO's and SF types. I can't see the need for it. Who knows what their civilian populas will do. Take cover would be my first though.
2) A couple of Squadrons of Russian jets and a fleet of aging(30+) year old F-14s shouldn't be any problem. Is there even 1 f-14 left that combat ready ? did they have to cannabilize the rest for spare parts. Trying to but/steal parts and send them hone via UPS is hardly a great way to logsiticly run a Air Force.(sorry UPS)

How can you even mention those old F-14's being a match For newer more sophisticated airframes ? How much time in the air do you think Iranian pilots train in those f-14's ?
3) Outside of parades, we haven't seen nor heard much of the Iranians regular military forces. The regime knows full well that there revolution would have gone nowhere if they has not decided to ignore the Shahs orders to keep fighting thier own civilian countrymen. So the Mullahs came up with a private army. the IRG and thier support thugs. They keep the Mullahs in power. The regular Army would seem to be confined to barracks. Makes one wonder how trusted they are by their own goverment.
4) One thing they have in common with Saddam. Thousands of SAMS, We have all kinds of electronic anti radar defenses and of course nasty suprises. They can be degraded in time
5) You seemed to have forgotten the 1st gulf war. I'd bet the Gulf States including the Saudis
can help pick up the costs.

Hopefully we can avoid armed conflict with Iran. If we can't.Then the Navy and AF will do the heavy lifting

[duck]

I found http://pandodaily.com/2012/10/19/wev...chtick-before/ unreadable, but skimming it reminded me that we've been hearing these claims for a while ...

It also contains the sensible idea that power plant control systems and the like should be physically isolated from the internet (i.e. via an "air gap").

I've never, EVER, understood why these systems needed to be connected to the internet to begin with. If I were the architect of these systems, Control #1 would be to have them NOT connected to the WWW in any which way, shape or form. Technicians need to do work on the system? Drive your butt in.

Of course, having said that and considering the topic, I often ask if it is so easy to take down SCADA networks, why isn't it happening all the time, with great effect?

[Xulu Bak]

I don't know if Iran is behind any cyber attacks. If they are, we have the capabilities to dismantle and bring Iran to it's kness if we should decide to strike them in retaliation.

We already successfully executed a major cyber strike on Iran, unless of course you think it was Israel, but that doesn't really seem their style.

[PhillyE2Heart]

The cyber battle is already going on, and we're winning.

Because if we weren't, we'd most certainly know.