Crosby, Stamkos, and then Giroux....Malkin simply gets to frustrated and makes way to many terrible passes (evident in this past series). Don't talk to me about Ovechkin. He was benched the other night, is worse than LeBron James when it comes to playoff performance. He's dirty and over the past 2 years has really fallen off his game. He's a distant 5th among the 5 SS listed.
I LOVE Giroux though. He's one of the few Flyers i readily root for. Guy plays the game the right way and is uber talented. I put Stamkos above Giroux simply because he's on a less talented team and puts up ridiculous goal numbers.
Crosby if healthy for 80+ games would be putting up 120-130 point seasons (see last year and this years per game averages). I know you all hate him, but he's simply the best all around player in the game.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Joseph Palmi: Let me ask you something... we Italians, we got our families, and we got the church; the Irish, they have the homeland, Jews their tradition; even the niggers, they got their music. What about you people, Mr. Wilson, what do you have?
Edward Wilson: The United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-George Orwell
Giroux is the best player in the league right now... And that's not just the homer in me... The point was proven for me on the 1st shift today... Giroux checks Crosby and scored a goal on his first shift... Crosby was basically taken out of the game from that point forward... I mean, did he even take a shift after that? Hit Crosby early, he folds... Hit Giroux early, he plays better... A team leader, scores goals, plays D, plays the PP and PK...
Sorry MarkIt, Crosby is a whiny baby who when hit, quits... I said to my wife 2 minutes into the 3rd today that the Pens quit... A leader would never let that happen...
Crosby, when healthy, is still the best player in the game. Giroux, though, is making huge steps and he's definitely one of the league's best players. He was terrific in this series.
Giroux is the best player in the league right now... And that's not just the homer in me... The point was proven for me on the 1st shift today... Giroux checks Crosby and scored a goal on his first shift... Crosby was basically taken out of the game from that point forward... I mean, did he even take a shift after that? Hit Crosby early, he folds... Hit Giroux early, he plays better... A team leader, scores goals, plays D, plays the PP and PK...
Sorry MarkIt, Crosby is a whiny baby who when hit, quits... I said to my wife 2 minutes into the 3rd today that the Pens quit... A leader would never let that happen...
Crosby HAS lead his team to multiple Stanley Cups (winning one), won the Gold medal for Canada and would have scored about 130 points last year had he not been hurt. His PPG this year was, easily the best in the league....but it took to long to find out he had a vertebrae problem and not a conussion that was keeping him out. He's 24. 99% of the people in hockey have never sniffed that for a CAREER.
Giroux is a fabulous player. I have nothing but respect for him. He is NOT the passer or playmaker Crosby is, nor the goal scorer. 90% of the people on this board will agree with me, despite their disdain for Crosby. He simply is THAT good.
The Pens quitting had little to nothing to do with Crosby. He was an 8 point player through 6 games. The Pens lost that series because 1, Fleury was beyond horrible for all but 1 game and the defense was atrocious. That doesn't bode well when you play a team with teh firepower the Flyers have.
The lowest point in this series (despite your winning it) was the Flyers quitting in the 2nd period of a 10-3 trainwreck. Crosby's PPG is higher against the Flyers than any team he's faced in his career. You, of all people should know how damn good he is, when on the ice.
Giroux had an absolutely outstanding series....but the playoffs are about more than a 1st round win. Until Claude has captained his team to the cup, he'll be lagging slightly behind. That's the way it is.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Joseph Palmi: Let me ask you something... we Italians, we got our families, and we got the church; the Irish, they have the homeland, Jews their tradition; even the niggers, they got their music. What about you people, Mr. Wilson, what do you have?
Edward Wilson: The United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-George Orwell
Being a Flyers fan, I'm not sure I'd trade Giroux for anybody. But, in my attempt to not be a homer, I tried to break down areas of both of the games and had a hard time putting Crosby ahead on much.
Crosby might be the slightly better passer. Giroux is the better stick handler by a lot. Is probably better 1-on-1. Is great defensively. I guess you could say that Crosby is the better goal scorer, but if Giroux wanted to score more, he would.
Originally Posted by MarkItAZero!
Crosby HAS lead his team to multiple Stanley Cups (winning one), won the Gold medal for Canada
Winning titles is a team accomplishment, not an individual one.
Originally Posted by MarkItAZero!
.... and would have scored about 130 points last year had he not been hurt.
And Giroux was on pace for about that amount of points this year until he had concussion problems. Since when do points that you don't score count for anything? Are you saying that you'd rather have Crosby for 20-40 games with a better PPG or Giroux for 70 games? Health has to count for something.
Originally Posted by MarkItAZero!
Giroux is a fabulous player. I have nothing but respect for him. He is NOT the passer or playmaker Crosby is, nor the goal scorer. 90% of the people on this board will agree with me, despite their disdain for Crosby. He simply is THAT good.
To say that Crosby is the better playmaker is false. I mean, Scott Hartnell scored 37 goals this year. Giroux has never played with the kind of talent that Crosby has. Teams key in on Giroux as much as they do on Crosby. The difference is that G doesn't have the talent on his line to make other teams pay for it quite as much.
Originally Posted by MarkItAZero!
The Pens quitting had little to nothing to do with Crosby. He was an 8 point player through 6 games. The Pens lost that series because 1, Fleury was beyond horrible for all but 1 game and the defense was atrocious. That doesn't bode well when you play a team with teh firepower the Flyers have.
There is so much wrong with this that I don't know where to start. Crosby is the captain. If his team quits, then it's partially on him. You can blame Fleury, but it's not like Bryz was exceptional in the series. Or the Flyers defence, for that matter.
And while Crosby might not have lost the team the series, he certainly didn't win it. Giroux, who is not even the team captain, told his coach that he was starting the game, then came out, knocked Crosby down, and went down and scored on a near perfect shot. I don't care how many points Crosby could have scored, he certainly didn't score any in a deciding game and couldn't stop Giroux from doing whatever he wanted.
And to point out that Crosby had 8 points in 6 games isn't as good as it sounds. There were over 50 goals scored in the series. Since we're comparing the two players, Giroux had 14.
Originally Posted by MarkItAZero!
The lowest point in this series (despite your winning it) was the Flyers quitting in the 2nd period of a 10-3 trainwreck.
First off, what does this have to do with anything? Secondly, I'm pretty sure the lowest point was most of game 3 when the Pens played cheaply and embarrassed themselves and their fans.
Originally Posted by MarkItAZero!
Crosby's PPG is higher against the Flyers than any team he's faced in his career. You, of all people should know how damn good he is, when on the ice.
Congrats, he puts up a lot of points against bad goalies.
Originally Posted by MarkItAZero!
Giroux had an absolutely outstanding series....but the playoffs are about more than a 1st round win. Until Claude has captained his team to the cup, he'll be lagging slightly behind. That's the way it is.
Again, winning the cup is about the team, not one player. And if you're going to use that as a standard, then Crosby couldn't even win a first round series, which apparently doesn't mean anything in your books. So, Crosby must really suck.
Crosby is still the superior player between the two. Crosby is more skilled, the better passer, the better stickhandler, and the better scorer. The gap between the two, however, has closed.
Crosby's regular linemates have been Chris Kunitz, Pascual Dupuis, and Matt Cooke. Scott Hartnell is a better player than all three of these guys. Crosby also doesn't play with Malkin or Staal on a regular basis except on the PP with the former.
I'm with MIZ on this one - only homers would choose Giroux over Crosby, who is the best player in the world. And I say this as a guy who doesn't even like the Penguins.
Crosby is more skilled, the better passer, the better stickhandler, and the better scorer.
There is no chance that Crosby is the better stick handler. I think he is a better passer. A better scorer? It's probably a wash.
Originally Posted by TheStarStillShines
Crosby also doesn't play with Malkin or Staal on a regular basis except on the PP with the former.
And how much do power play points contribute to Crosby's overall stats?
Plus, I'd rather have a guy that plays the way Giroux did in this last series as opposed to the way Crosby did. Malkin was more of a leader than Crosby was during the first round series. And that's pathetic.
Crosby is the better stickhandler. Well, they are both superior stickhandlers.
As for your question about PP points:
Crosby - 609 career points (434 games) - 239 PP. 39.2% of his points have come on the PP.
Giroux - 243 career points (285 games) - 84 PP. 34.6% of his points have come on the PP.
So, that's not that large of difference between the two.
It's also interesting to note that Crosby's PP points have declined over the past few years (his highest totals were his first two years in the League) while Giroux's have increased, which isn't surprising since he's been given a much larger role offensively with the Flyers.
They are both great players. Why is it so difficult for people to acknowledge that? And yes, Giroux was the better player than Crosby in this series. No one can question that. However, I think it's premature to say that overall Giroux is the better player. Right now, I would still take Crosby and I'm pretty sure every GM would say the same thing. However, I'm pretty confident that every GM would also say that Giroux is catching up to Crosby.
He's really not. And I'm not sure this one is all that close.
Originally Posted by TheStarStillShines
They are both great players. Why is it so difficult for people to acknowledge that?
Is anyone denying this? The question is which one is better.
Originally Posted by TheStarStillShines
And yes, Giroux was the better player than Crosby in this series. No one can question that. However, I think it's premature to say that overall Giroux is the better player.
I watch Giroux play every game and I thought a few years ago that he would develop into the player he currently is. For me, it's not premature at all.
Originally Posted by TheStarStillShines
Right now, I would still take Crosby and I'm pretty sure every GM would say the same thing.
With Crosby's recent injuries, I guarantee you this is incorrect. I know you're most likely referring to a healthy Crosby when making your decision, but the fact is that he's played in 60 some odd games the last two seasons combined.
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Originally Posted by EaglesKickA##
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