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  1. #1
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    Many U.S. Children of Immigrants Seek American Dream Abroad

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/16/us...&smid=fb-share

    And just so we're all clear on this: these are either American-born children of legal immigrants or people who went through the process themselves to become citizens, so let's skip the "protect the borders" crap, all right?
    "No two people on Earth are alike, and it's got to be that way in music or else it isn't music."—Billie Holliday

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim in NYC View Post
    so let's skip the "protect the borders" crap, all right?
    I'm not sure how that's even germane to the story. It's very hard to quantify the effect this outflux has on our county without actual data.

    Best of luck to those who seek their fortunes abroad.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFin View Post
    I'm not sure how that's even germane to the story. It's very hard to quantify the effect this outflux has on our county without actual data.

    Best of luck to those who seek their fortunes abroad.
    I'm trying to head off the knee-jerk types who automatically equate "immigrant" with "illegal".
    "No two people on Earth are alike, and it's got to be that way in music or else it isn't music."—Billie Holliday

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFin View Post
    Best of luck to those who seek their fortunes abroad.
    This^^^^^^
    Ignorance is those who disparage believers....12 They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion; they will rejoice in the bounty of the LORD—the grain, the new wine and the olive oil, the young of the flocks and herds. They will be like a well-watered garden, and they will sorrow no more.
    13 Then young women will dance and be glad, young men and old as well. I will turn their mourning into gladness; I will give them comfort and joy instead of sorrow.

  5. #5
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    So we're all agreed that the American Era is over?
    "No two people on Earth are alike, and it's got to be that way in music or else it isn't music."—Billie Holliday

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim in NYC View Post
    So we're all agreed that the American Era is over?
    Four posts (two of which were by you, one of which questioned your motives for your caveat and the other that merely said "this") and you make this broad reach into your true intent for the thread?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by duck View Post
    Four posts (two of which were by you, one of which questioned your motives for your caveat and the other that merely said "this") and you make this broad reach into your true intent for the thread?
    Jim is so clueless about other countries that he loves to/can only parrot talking points.

    Unfortunately for him more and more American companies are starting to realize that Outsourcing to 3rd world countries for IT is a bad idea. I know my company isn't doing it anymore. 3rd world is good for low level stuff, once you expect them to start thinking about your product or expect high level technology ideas they are done.

    You want to read something awesome:

    http://phys.org/news/2012-04-d-indus...evolution.html

    Wait till this works for average consumer products. China will be dead. I give it 10 years tops before we have replicators able to make stuff that we use everyday.
    Last edited by nywis; 04-16-2012 at 04:37 PM.
    It may be that your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by duck View Post
    Four posts (two of which were by you, one of which questioned your motives for your caveat and the other that merely said "this") and you make this broad reach into your true intent for the thread?
    Considering that the two posts that were NOT by me were mere well-wishes to those seeking their fortunes elsewhere...rather than wondering how we could get them to seek them here instead...yes, I'll make that reach.

    It's one thing if the United States no longer can automatically assume that we will dominate the economic conversation, and that we now have to compete with China, India, and Brazil providing legitimate competition and even countries such as Ghana and Latvia growing their economies at an impressive rate--we've had competition before, and we've not only survived, we've thrived.

    But that it doesn't occur to anyone to even ask the question? To me, that states that we've already conceded - that Americans, as a rule, no longer think big or dream big.
    "No two people on Earth are alike, and it's got to be that way in music or else it isn't music."—Billie Holliday

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim in NYC View Post
    So we're all agreed that the American Era is over?
    I don't know if it's over but it's certainly being challenged more than ever before. It used to be a no-brainer that the worlds best and brightest wanted to come to the US but that's not quite true anymore The US economy is still quite dynamic but now there are other countries who are dynamic as well. India and China certainly come to mind. I'm sure there are others.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFan2003 View Post
    I don't know if it's over but it's certainly being challenged more than ever before. It used to be a no-brainer that the worlds best and brightest wanted to come to the US but that's not quite true anymore The US economy is still quite dynamic but now there are other countries who are dynamic as well. India and China certainly come to mind. I'm sure there are others.
    From what I've read, most of the countries in the conversation are those considered the "third world" - Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Nigeria, and, as I mentioned before, China, India, and Brazil.

    At the moment, the United States still has the edge over China, but they've been gaining considerable ground over the last couple of years.

    So I guess one of the secondary questions should be, "Can America fundamentally change its mindset and start viewing these countries as potential competition rather than potential underlings?"
    "No two people on Earth are alike, and it's got to be that way in music or else it isn't music."—Billie Holliday

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nywis View Post
    Wait till this works for average consumer products. China will be dead. I give it 10 years tops before we have replicators able to make stuff that we use everyday.
    And even if the replicator doesn't exist we will continue to see a rise in the labor costs in China, which will prompt some manufacturers to again relocate their factories.
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
    -Kurt Vonnegut "Mother Night"

  12. #12
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    There are 4 general problems I see with our country today:

    1. Negative "culture" emerging whereas this used to be quite a friendly nation culturally.

    2. Over-regulated, so it's difficult to start a new business or innovate without the government telling you what to do.

    3. Over-taxed. Our corporate tax is the highest in the world.

    4. Under-educated. This current young generation of Americans are the first generation in a long time to have fewer skills, less honesty (culturally) and our schools have quite a bit to do with that. The lack of discipline, pushing of work ethic, poor teaching methods, ineffective curriculum, encouraging of teamwork, etc. has finally had it's effect. This is the first American generation in a long time that is "behind" other competing countries. When prospective global businesses see that the U.S. doesn't have sufficient numbers of highly educated workers, they are picking other countries to expand in.

    3.5 out of those 4 can be solved by changing government policies and altering existing laws. The ".5" that remains is a cultural problem that must be fixed by our people. That other ".5" is when the children are at school being looked after by the government. Parents should have school choice and be able to choose a school that reflects their values and culture. Right now too many schools are out of control and not able to functionally teach.
    As defined by the Official Terrorism Training For Law Enforcement:
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    Extreme force and violence perpetrated by
    the people government of a country, within that country,
    for the purpose of coercing its government and population public
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  13. #13
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    For once, cheese, you and I are somewhat in step here.

    But I question your last thought - that of parental choice of school. The last 20 years have seen a rise in charter schools and in home schooling - and you yourself state the results ("This current young generation of Americans are the first generation in a long time to have fewer skills, less honesty (culturally) and our schools have quite a bit to do with that."). The public school model isn't the only one and hasn't been for quite a while now.
    "No two people on Earth are alike, and it's got to be that way in music or else it isn't music."—Billie Holliday

  14. #14
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    People started coming to America for the chance at the "dream" of owning their own business, not to sit in a cubicle from 9 to 5. I'm surprised it took this long for this to happen.
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

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  15. #15
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    A start would go back to allowing kids that are above average to excel instead of holding them back because of the fear of hurting the kids who are not so smart.

    In other words go back to seperating classes based upon ability to excel at school.

    Also stop allowing anyone who wants to, to do home schooling.
    Ignorance is those who disparage believers....12 They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion; they will rejoice in the bounty of the LORD—the grain, the new wine and the olive oil, the young of the flocks and herds. They will be like a well-watered garden, and they will sorrow no more.
    13 Then young women will dance and be glad, young men and old as well. I will turn their mourning into gladness; I will give them comfort and joy instead of sorrow.

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