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  1. #1
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    The most transparent administration in history

    Well,

    Obama's administration had leveled more prosecutions against "whistleblowers" than any administration in history.

    Thomas Drake is the most egregious example. The man exposed fraud, waste and abuse in the NSA and then he was prosecuted with charges that are usually only reserved for SPIES. Thomas Drake won the court battle brought at him by Obama's Justice Dept and Eric Holder. I bet you never heard THAT from the mainstream media, did ya?

    I like this guy, Thomas Drake. A stand up gentleman with class.

    Here is a video interview of his and this guy is one of the most interesting media interviewees I've ever watched on a news piece.

    Go to this video and especially visit 6:50. VERY interesting interview. Worth the watch.
    Last edited by thelittlecheese; 04-16-2012 at 01:28 AM.
    As defined by the Official Terrorism Training For Law Enforcement:
    What Is Domestic Terrorism?
    Extreme force and violence perpetrated by
    the people government of a country, within that country,
    for the purpose of coercing its government and population public
    into modifying its behavior"

    You are either with Our Constitution or you are with The Terrorists!

    Government...if it leans to the left it eventually means theft. - tlc

  2. #2
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    I think the Obama administration's handling of whistleblower cases is extremely disheartening.


    However, funny thing -

    http://whistleblower.org/action-center/save-tom-drake

    In late 2004/early 2005, after years of investigation and thousands of pages of documents from Mr. Drake, the DoDIG released a report substantiating Drake and the complainants. Using the Freedom of Information Act, GAP later obtained a redacted copy of the classified report.

    Meanwhile, when the New York Times published a story exposing the NSA's unconstitutional warrantless wiretapping program, the FBI launched an expansive – and fruitless – investigation into the sources for the article. Although Drake was not a source for it, the federal government used the "leak" investigation as a pretext to persecute him. In November 2007, a few months after the FBI subjected three of the original DoD IG complainants to simultaneous armed raids, approximately a dozen armed federal agents raided Drake's house
    The issues Drake reported and the beginning of his persecution all happened under the Bush administration.


    So, my question to you, TLC, would be - where was/is your outrage towards the Bush admin and his baby, the NSA?
    Or is this just a convenient excuse for another partisan hack job?
    The word "hero" is frequently abused badly. This is a real hero.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moriarty View Post
    I think the Obama administration's handling of whistleblower cases is extremely disheartening.


    However, funny thing -

    http://whistleblower.org/action-center/save-tom-drake






    The issues Drake reported and the beginning of his persecution all happened under the Bush administration.


    So, my question to you, TLC, would be - where was/is your outrage towards the Bush admin and his baby, the NSA?
    Or is this just a convenient excuse for another partisan hack job?
    Did Bush claim and put an emphasis on being "the most transparent administration" in the history of the county?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by seahawksfan837 View Post
    Did Bush claim and put an emphasis on being "the most transparent administration" in the history of the county?
    So, if i say I'm the most evil and vicious person in the world, I can murder and pillage at will, because I didn't say I was nice or honest.

    Makes sense to me.

    Security agencies tend to be a bit touchy about bringing classified documents home, or leaking security infromation to the press. Pretty much the nature of security operations, regardless of administration.

    Not saying it's right, but that is what spies do, retain classified material they shouldn't possess.
    Last edited by RayClay; 04-16-2012 at 03:38 AM.
    I've got binders full of women
    and a one point plan.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayClay View Post
    So, if i say I'm the most evil and vicious person in the world, I can murder and pillage at will, because I didn't say I was nice or honest.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayClay View Post
    So, if i say I'm the most evil and vicious person in the world, I can murder and pillage at will, because I didn't say I was nice or honest.

    Makes sense to me.

    Security agencies tend to be a bit touchy about bringing classified documents home, or leaking security infromation to the press. Pretty much the nature of security operations, regardless of administration.

    Not saying it's right, but that is what spies do, retain classified material they shouldn't possess.
    Three times in history prior to this has this law been used.

    We're up to 6 with Obama. The guy is really disturbing on many levels and it's shocking how many people will actually go and vote for him.
    "There were many ways of not burdening one's conscience, of shunning responsibility, looking away, keeping mum. When the unspeakable truth of the holocaust then became known at the end of the war, all too many of us claimed that they had not known anything about it or even suspected anything."

    - Richard Von Weizsaecker

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by seahawksfan837 View Post
    Actually, I am not making a straw man argument, i am ridiculing your position by logical exaggeration, which is a different thing. you might want to read your own link, not every logical fallacy is a strawman. Mine wasn't even intended to be a logical argument, it was in response to your logical fallacy, a tu quoque.

    Are you arguing that transparency is not a positive goal?

    Are you arguing that the Obama administration is less transparent than another previous administration? (name it please). If not, then your argument is, because Obama made a goal of being more transparent, if he is not absolutely perfect, then he is worse than administrations who were less transparent.

    This is an appeal to hypocrisy argument, or a tu quoque argument.

    I've got binders full of women
    and a one point plan.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by seahawksfan837 View Post
    Did Bush claim and put an emphasis on being "the most transparent administration" in the history of the county?
    What an odd argument.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyerhawk View Post
    What an odd argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by RayClay View Post
    Actually, I am not making a straw man argument, i am ridiculing your position by logical exaggeration, which is a different thing. you might want to read your own link, not every logical fallacy is a strawman. Mine wasn't even intended to be a logical argument, it was in response to your logical fallacy, a tu quoque.

    Are you arguing that transparency is not a positive goal?

    Are you arguing that the Obama administration is less transparent than another previous administration? (name it please). If not, then your argument is, because Obama made a goal of being more transparent, if he is not absolutely perfect, then he is worse than administrations who were less transparent.
    Ok, you guys aren't getting this.

    When someone calls themselves "the most transparent administration in history" that immediately puts an emphasis on doing so. If Obama calls his administration that, he's essentially holding himself to a higher standard. That doesn't mean Bush shouldn't have. My point all along was that the original post was an example to the contrary of what Obama has claimed. That's why Bush isn't really relevant here.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by seahawksfan837 View Post
    Ok, you guys aren't getting this.

    When someone calls themselves "the most transparent administration in history" that immediately puts an emphasis on doing so. If Obama calls his administration that, he's essentially holding himself to a higher standard. That doesn't mean Bush shouldn't have. My point all along was that the original post was an example to the contrary of what Obama has claimed. That's why Bush isn't really relevant here.
    So, if a team is favored to win by two touchdowns, but only wins by a field goal, they actually lost?
    I've got binders full of women
    and a one point plan.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayClay View Post
    So, if a team is favored to win by two touchdowns, but only wins by a field goal, they actually lost?
    Think of it more like PETA, who are supposed ardent animal rights crusaders who picket and slander legitimate animal rescue organizations, and then reports come out that PETA is also euthanizing animals at a high rate.

    Obama is killing puppies for fun.
    If the majority distributes among itself the things of a minority, it is evident that it will destroy the city. --Aristotle
    If we did all the things we are capable of, we would literally astound ourselves. - Thomas Edison

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin Lombardi View Post
    Obama is killing puppies for fun.
    It's true; I read it on the internet.
    "Let's eat Grandma!"..."Let's eat, Grandma!"
    Punctuation saves lives.

    The heavens declare Your glory - X Structure at the Core of Whirlpool Galaxy

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayClay View Post
    So, if a team is favored to win by two touchdowns, but only wins by a field goal, they actually lost?
    Doesn't make sense.

    Your argument was a straw man because you were insinuating that my post meant that it was okay for Bush to get away with the same thing Obama is getting criticized for now. No one said that, and I didn't say that, which was exactly why it was a straw man argument.

    When you tell people that "the way government is handled is going to change" and "this is going to be the most transparent administration in history", like it or not, that puts the President on a pedestal. And it certainly deserves criticism, since that is part of the campaign he ran on to get votes.

    If Bush had said a bunch of stuff and then completely contradicted his words with his actions, you guys would jump all over him as well, and rightly so.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moriarty View Post
    I think the Obama administration's handling of whistleblower cases is extremely disheartening.


    However, funny thing -

    http://whistleblower.org/action-center/save-tom-drake





    The issues Drake reported and the beginning of his persecution all happened under the Bush administration.


    So, my question to you, TLC, would be - where was/is your outrage towards the Bush admin and his baby, the NSA?
    Or is this just a convenient excuse for another partisan hack job?
    The news article I read stated that it was Obama's justice department who brought the charges, not Bush's. Also, I don't need this to be a partisan "hack job". Obama has prosecuted several other whistleblowers (more than any administration in history combined). So, go ahead and google it yourself.

    And the answer is YES. If the Bush administration prosecuted this man, then I am outraged. He is the VERY KIND OF PERSON we should have working in sensitive areas of government. If we had more people like him, our country would be functioning like it's supposed to and government officials wouldn't be able to walk all over the people of this country and violate our rights.
    Last edited by thelittlecheese; 04-16-2012 at 07:15 PM.
    As defined by the Official Terrorism Training For Law Enforcement:
    What Is Domestic Terrorism?
    Extreme force and violence perpetrated by
    the people government of a country, within that country,
    for the purpose of coercing its government and population public
    into modifying its behavior"

    You are either with Our Constitution or you are with The Terrorists!

    Government...if it leans to the left it eventually means theft. - tlc

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayClay View Post
    Actually, I am not making a straw man argument, i am ridiculing your position by logical exaggeration, which is a different thing. you might want to read your own link, not every logical fallacy is a strawman. Mine wasn't even intended to be a logical argument, it was in response to your logical fallacy, a tu quoque.

    Are you arguing that transparency is not a positive goal?

    Are you arguing that the Obama administration is less transparent than another previous administration? (name it please). If not, then your argument is, because Obama made a goal of being more transparent, if he is not absolutely perfect, then he is worse than administrations who were less transparent.

    This is an appeal to hypocrisy argument, or a tu quoque argument.

    You are ignoring my very strong point indicating he's the exact opposite of what claimed and the least transparent admin in history however.

    6 times vs 3 times for all Presidents in history before?

    Ok.
    "There were many ways of not burdening one's conscience, of shunning responsibility, looking away, keeping mum. When the unspeakable truth of the holocaust then became known at the end of the war, all too many of us claimed that they had not known anything about it or even suspected anything."

    - Richard Von Weizsaecker

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