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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin Lombardi View Post
    Really? I'd say there's a very small chance, but they wouldn't have taken the case and then scheduled all this time for it if they're just going to punt it. They had what they needed to decide to punt or not when they chose to take the case.
    Well neither side appears to want the court to punt the issue. So the court actually appointed an independent counsel to argue that particular case.

    And equally unlikely but potentially crazy thing could come from this case:
    If you think there is a snowball's chance in hell that the SCOTUS is going to rule that Medicaid is Unconstitutional then I got a bridge on the East River to sell you.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandango View Post
    If they get rid of this mandate I hope that they get rid of the 'must buy' auto insurance mandate too.
    Care to link me to that federal mandate?
    If the majority distributes among itself the things of a minority, it is evident that it will destroy the city. --Aristotle
    If we did all the things we are capable of, we would literally astound ourselves. - Thomas Edison

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin Lombardi View Post
    Care to link me to that federal mandate?
    I never said there was one, but if governmental mandates to buy a producet are illegal for this, then they have to be illegal for everything in my mind.
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
    -Kurt Vonnegut "Mother Night"

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyerhawk View Post
    If you think there is a snowball's chance in hell that the SCOTUS is going to rule that Medicaid is Unconstitutional then I got a bridge on the East River to sell you.
    They wouldn't do that directly, but there has to be some point where bribing become coercive, which as noted is unconstitutional. And as I said above, it's an unlikely outcome.
    If the majority distributes among itself the things of a minority, it is evident that it will destroy the city. --Aristotle
    If we did all the things we are capable of, we would literally astound ourselves. - Thomas Edison

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandango View Post
    I never said there was one, but if governmental mandates to buy a producet are illegal for this, then they have to be illegal for everything in my mind.
    Key concept: federal mandate. States can do things that the federal government cannot. Hence why an insurance requirement for driving a car can be required by the state, but not the federal government.
    If the majority distributes among itself the things of a minority, it is evident that it will destroy the city. --Aristotle
    If we did all the things we are capable of, we would literally astound ourselves. - Thomas Edison

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin Lombardi View Post
    Key concept: federal mandate. States can do things that the federal government cannot. Hence why insurance can be a requirement for driving a car can be required by the state, but not the federal government.
    Concept smoncept, if mandates are illegal at the federal level they certainly shouldn't be legal at the state level. States shouldn't be any more able to force people to buy a product than the federal government can. WWFFD?
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
    -Kurt Vonnegut "Mother Night"

  7. #22
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    Apparently the ABA did a survey of a bunch of lawyers on whether they thought the SCOTUS would overturn ACA. 85% of the respondents believe the court will uphold the case.

    http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-coh...a-survey-lopez
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fandango View Post
    If they get rid of this mandate I hope that they get rid of the 'must buy' auto insurance mandate too.
    I hope if they get rid of the mandate, they also stop forcing us to pay for those people who don't buy health insurance.
    Fear is the mind killer

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin Lombardi View Post
    They wouldn't do that directly, but there has to be some point where bribing become coercive, which as noted is unconstitutional. And as I said above, it's an unlikely outcome.
    Unlikely suggests there is a chance. There is no chance they will do that.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  10. #25
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    Interesting opinion piece from a W. short list candidate for SCOTUS.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/op...stitution.html

    As a political argument, that resonates: “Don’t Tread On Me” trumpets the imperishable spirit of American liberty. But as a constitutional argument, it would imbue judges with unprecedented powers to topple an exhaustively debated and duly enacted federal law and to make the determination that the decision not to buy ice cream can be neatly severed from the decision to buy chocolate or vanilla.

    In curbing federal excess, courts risk lessening our national economic strength. That strength resides partly in the national aspects of our founding document, among them the now maligned commerce clause and the newly mistrusted supremacy clause, which gives preference to federal over state law when there is a conflict. States’ rights are important in many spheres, but the benefits of a national economic policy must also be considered. A vibrant economic order requires some political predictability, and the prospect of judges’ striking down commercial regulation on ill-defined and subjective bases is a prescription for economic chaos that the framers, in a simpler time, had the good sense to head off.

    It is tempting to shout states’ rights when deeply flawed federal legislation is enacted, but the momentary satisfactions of that exercise carry long-term constitutional costs. Badly conceived bills die a thousand political deaths — in the appropriations process, in the states, through electoral retribution, in the executive appointments of a succeeding administration and ultimately in amendment and repeal. However, if courts read the Constitution in such a way that it enables them to make Congress ineffectual, and instead to promote 50 state regulatory regimes in an era of rapidly mounting global challenges, the risks should escape no one. Making our charter more parochial while other nations flex their economic muscle seems like poor timing.
    He goes to take some shots at liberal causes but they aren't pertinent to this discussion.
    Last edited by flyerhawk; 03-21-2012 at 06:12 PM.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

  11. #26
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    I will save the goons the trouble...


    ...we are supposed to believe an article from the NY Times...
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
    -Kurt Vonnegut "Mother Night"

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyerhawk View Post
    Should be interesting. Pretty decent shot that the SCOTUS punts the issue based on standing.
    Which will be perfect since BO will get at least one more retirement before his next 4 years are up and it'll be one of the conservatives...That'll flip the court 5-4 the other way. You'll see this upheld as well as a major assault on firearms before his term ends in 2016.
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

    Joseph Palmi: Let me ask you something... we Italians, we got our families, and we got the church; the Irish, they have the homeland, Jews their tradition; even the niggers, they got their music. What about you people, Mr. Wilson, what do you have?

    Edward Wilson: The United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
    -George Orwell

  13. #28
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    What would you call a major assault on guns that Obama would attempt?
    The consistent factor of all of your dissatisfying relationships and failures is you.

    R.W. 09.21.10 I love you.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbelt View Post
    What would you call a major assault on guns that Obama would attempt?
    See Clinton, Bill.

    Same framework.
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

    Joseph Palmi: Let me ask you something... we Italians, we got our families, and we got the church; the Irish, they have the homeland, Jews their tradition; even the niggers, they got their music. What about you people, Mr. Wilson, what do you have?

    Edward Wilson: The United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
    -George Orwell

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkItAZero! View Post
    Which will be perfect since BO will get at least one more retirement before his next 4 years are up and it'll be one of the conservatives...That'll flip the court 5-4 the other way. You'll see this upheld as well as a major assault on firearms before his term ends in 2016.
    Don't count on it. Gun rights are expanding and there is little political will to get in the way anytime soon.
    The trouble with the world today is the intelligent people are full of doubt and the dumb people are full of confidence - Charles Bukowski

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