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  1. #76
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    ^^^^was just linking to sources that noted that these laws are the doings of the NRA, as you requested a source for.
    Scandal is gossip made tedious by morality.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeyeJones View Post
    Kinda depends on what you're talking about IMO, and if by "racism" you mean overt racism or just racial inequality (e.g. wealth inequality between white families and black families more than quadrupled between 1985 and 2010 -- white families (115K) now have on average about 23 times as much wealth as black families (5K)). Black wealth has decreased by 60% from where it was in 2004, whereas white wealth has declined by about 10%).

    As far as "racism" I think it's hard to tell, but as far as racial inequality goes, I'd strongly disagree with the narrative about how -- as a rule -- things are getting better (see: wealth, income, unemployment, imprisonment and over-policing, access to social services, etc.).
    For me, racism is about attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors. Outcomes may be evidence of racism, but they're not racism in and of themselves.
    APF doesn't come in screaming at others about how stupid they are. APF doesn't spam NST with the same tired topic 30 times a month. APF doesn't link to some kook in his mom's basement telling you how to, "Be afraid. Be very afraid" of the world falling down around you. And, when APF is proven wrong, he acknowledges he made a mistake and moves on, rather than harping about "sheeple."

    -- Cory Bonini

    Welchie summarized

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndromedaPatFan View Post
    For me, racism is about attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors. Outcomes may be evidence of racism, but they're not racism in and of themselves.
    Hypothetically, if im a racist, who makes a choice to assualt you because you "dont belong". And the sole determining factor was racial background and i shoot you and kill you. That isnt a hate crime? Its like a bunch of guys beating a gay guy or an asian guy to death cuz of their difference and not classifying it hate cuz they didnt yell racist words first.
    "Girl was bout as nutty as squirel $h!t"- Uncle ruckas.

  4. #79
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    Is there such a thing as hate crimes between minorities... I mean legally?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by byron2112 View Post
    Is there such a thing as hate crimes between minorities... I mean legally?
    Hispanic to African-American, yes.

    black-on-black? I wouldn't think so.
    "Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed but rather evolved." - Francis Crick.

    "For since the creation of the world, God's invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." - Romans 1:20

    "It's one reason I hate reading what Tyke writes. It just annoys the hell out of me." - Big Pink Monkey

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndromedaPatFan View Post
    For me, racism is about attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors. Outcomes may be evidence of racism, but they're not racism in and of themselves.
    For sure. The only problem being that these things are regularly implicit, and regularly dismissed as being related to anything BUT race in the types of one-on-one scenarios that attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors orient one to (before even mentioning all the shockingly racist attitudes and behaviors of people who are vehemently "not racist," as we sometimes even see here). It's the structural stuff that makes racism a problem, not individual acts of meanness.

    Point being that aggregated outcomes such as folks with white sounding names being 50% more likely to be called in for a job interview than folks with black sounding names and identical resumes, or black adolescent first time offenders arrested for drug possession being 48 times more likely to serve jail time than white adolescent first time offenders arrested for drug possession, or white applicants with a felony conviction being more likely to be called in for a interview than black applicants with an identical resume and no felony conviction, or non-whites experiencing renters discrimination at 1/5 rental units, etc. etc. etc. When you talk to the offending parties in these scenarios the outcome is rarely -- if ever -- "about race," although in the aggregate it clearly is.
    Last edited by PopeyeJones; 03-17-2012 at 04:09 AM.
    Scandal is gossip made tedious by morality.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyke1doe View Post
    Hispanic to African-American, yes.

    black-on-black? I wouldn't think so.



    Clayton Bigsby would beg to differ.
    I'm tryin' to explain to you that Ronald Reagan was the devil. Ronald Wilson Reagan? Each of his names has six letters? 6-6-6? Man, doesn't that offend you?

    -Huey Freeman

  8. #83
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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1354909.html

    “This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something,” Zimmerman tells the 911 operator. “He’s just staring, looking at all the houses. Now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hand in his waistband. Something’s wrong with him.”

    Zimmerman described Martin as wearing a hoodie and sweatpants or jeans. He continues: “He’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. Can we get an officer over here?”

    “These *******s always get away,” he says to the operator. Zimmerman is then heard giving directions to the dispatcher. “****, he’s running,” Zimmerman says.

    “Are you following him?” the dispatchers asked.

    “Yes,” Zimmerman responds.

    “We don’t need you to do that,” the dispatcher says.
    Scandal is gossip made tedious by morality.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFspeedboy View Post
    Hypothetically, if im a racist, who makes a choice to assualt you because you "dont belong". And the sole determining factor was racial background and i shoot you and kill you. That isnt a hate crime? Its like a bunch of guys beating a gay guy or an asian guy to death cuz of their difference and not classifying it hate cuz they didnt yell racist words first.
    That's not in the slightest bit responsive to my point.

    Anyhow, I think the concept of "hate crime" is mainly just a silly piece of legal complexity. I understand why "civil rights violation" has been used to create a bit of double jeopardy, Federalizing state crimes that might otherwise be jury-nullified. But I've never heard a second example of why having a "hate crime" category is worth the trouble.
    APF doesn't come in screaming at others about how stupid they are. APF doesn't spam NST with the same tired topic 30 times a month. APF doesn't link to some kook in his mom's basement telling you how to, "Be afraid. Be very afraid" of the world falling down around you. And, when APF is proven wrong, he acknowledges he made a mistake and moves on, rather than harping about "sheeple."

    -- Cory Bonini

    Welchie summarized

  10. #85
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    More so, at first glance the 911 calls suggest that it was the victim shouting for assistance, not Zimmerman.

    O yeah, and the cops doing nothing seems to be par for the course for the local PD - as well as to some extent for the local justice system.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1345868.html
    Al Michaels: "That's the loudest manure chant I have ever heared!"

    Sleeping barely above the sea... and walking under water

  11. #86
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    Seriously, if this guy is yelling racial slurs on a recording right before he shot and killed an unarmed man, after he was "running away". What more evidence do they need? Thats murder one by definition.

    1. Premeditated

    2. Committed more than one fellony

    3.targeted an individual due to his race

    4. Victim by murderers admission ran away from him.

    Dude should get the needle. Am i the only one that sees this as pretty clear cut?
    "Girl was bout as nutty as squirel $h!t"- Uncle ruckas.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyke1doe View Post
    Hispanic to African-American, yes.

    black-on-black? I wouldn't think so.
    Not race based... of course if the hate crime is religion/sexual preference motivated the race distinction flies out of the window, and black-on-black/white-on-white etc. hate crimes would be possible.
    Al Michaels: "That's the loudest manure chant I have ever heared!"

    Sleeping barely above the sea... and walking under water

  13. #88
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    Well, that comment - assuming he referred to him by a racial pejorative - goes a long way toward establishing this as a hate crime.
    "Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed but rather evolved." - Francis Crick.

    "For since the creation of the world, God's invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." - Romans 1:20

    "It's one reason I hate reading what Tyke writes. It just annoys the hell out of me." - Big Pink Monkey

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchBird View Post
    Not race based... of course if the hate crime is religion/sexual preference motivated the race distinction flies out of the window, and black-on-black/white-on-white etc. hate crimes would be possible.
    Forgot about the religious/sexual orientation/gender aspect. I was focused on race because of the nature of the topic. But you are correct.
    "Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed but rather evolved." - Francis Crick.

    "For since the creation of the world, God's invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." - Romans 1:20

    "It's one reason I hate reading what Tyke writes. It just annoys the hell out of me." - Big Pink Monkey

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFspeedboy View Post
    Seriously, if this guy is yelling racial slurs on a recording right before he shot and killed an unarmed man, after he was "running away". What more evidence do they need? Thats murder one by definition.

    1. Premeditated

    2. Committed more than one fellony

    3.targeted an individual due to his race

    4. Victim by murderers admission ran away from him.

    Dude should get the needle. Am i the only one that sees this as pretty clear cut?

    He didn't yell the 'N' word, he said "these @$$holes always get away". I was confused about that as well.
    I'm tryin' to explain to you that Ronald Reagan was the devil. Ronald Wilson Reagan? Each of his names has six letters? 6-6-6? Man, doesn't that offend you?

    -Huey Freeman

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