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  1. #1
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    Why is Robert Griffin a better prospect than Colin Kaepernick?

    Pure curiosity here to see if I am crazy or what. They both seem almost identical to me though. Plus size,arm strength and athleticism, high character and intelligence, gaudy passing stats in a goofy offense, very unrefined passing skills overall, though the base is arguably there.

    I know Yellowknifer and others liked CK even more than Cam Newton last year, but there is clearly something that separates those 2 and I feel like there is something similar separating a Griffin from a Cam Newton or maybe even Vick. I can't fully put my finger on it though so I'm curious what others think.

    Is Griffin a guy like Newton who can highly impress as a rookie or a guy like Kaepernick who has it all on paper, but can't even convince a team like SF, who's QB is mediocre and a FA, to give him a chance at starting in his second year? Maybe somewhere in between?

    Just thought it was worth discussing Griffin a little more after the big trade.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  2. #2
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    Because Griffin played in the Big 12, put up better pure passing number (especially the ridiculous completion %) while relying on his feet less.
    I'm tryin' to explain to you that Ronald Reagan was the devil. Ronald Wilson Reagan? Each of his names has six letters? 6-6-6? Man, doesn't that offend you?

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  3. #3
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    Griffen is more polished than Kap was coming out of College. Baylors offense was far more traditional than the Pistol Kap played in. Physically Kap is as good as anybody, but it takes much more than physical skill to succeed in the pros as we have found out numerous times. I'm not sure how far along Kap is, but with the lockout and being so raw, he didn't have a chance to compete for the starting job last season. We'll see how far along he is going into TC this season, but the fact the Niners seem to be offering Alex Smith a shorter deal than he wants leads me to believe they think Kap will be a starting option in the next couple of years.

  4. #4
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    Some fair points, but I'd argue them a bit For one, Griffin's offense was a bit more likely to produce such numbers. For 2, the Big12 wasn't exactly stellar defenses or teams last year. 3, Griffin actually had more rush attempts but considerably less yards, so he didn't rely on his legs less.

    I'm also not saying they are the exact same guy, but I think its worth comparing Griffin to guys like CK and not just Newton and other high picks. Is he a QB with insane physical gifts or a physical specimen with potential to become a QB? Many question Griffin's natural ability as a passer in an NFL offense.
    Last edited by Nastradamus; 03-11-2012 at 06:11 PM.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  5. #5
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    Griffin has one of the better deep balls we've seen come out in a while.

    Not just in arm strength, he's got great accuracy and touch on it as well.
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LASam View Post
    Griffen is more polished than Kap was coming out of College. Baylors offense was far more traditional than the Pistol Kap played in. Physically Kap is as good as anybody, but it takes much more than physical skill to succeed in the pros as we have found out numerous times. I'm not sure how far along Kap is, but with the lockout and being so raw, he didn't have a chance to compete for the starting job last season. We'll see how far along he is going into TC this season, but the fact the Niners seem to be offering Alex Smith a shorter deal than he wants leads me to believe they think Kap will be a starting option in the next couple of years.
    Well, the offense really wasn't that traditional. Pretty standard zone read spread offense. He's never had to read a D or make tough throws. To be honest I'd rate Griffin ahead of Kaepernick, but you can at least make an argument that he's somewhere between CK and Newton or someone of the like. Not sure he's up in the class of an Andrew Luck, that's for sure, and many have said such things. Some say even better, which is ludicrous.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  7. #7
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    He can actually throw a football.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    Well, the offense really wasn't that traditional. Pretty standard zone read spread offense. He's never had to read a D or make tough throws. To be honest I'd rate Griffin ahead of Kaepernick, but you can at least make an argument that he's somewhere between CK and Newton or someone of the like. Not sure he's up in the class of an Andrew Luck, that's for sure, and many have said such things. Some say even better, which is ludicrous.
    Compared to what Kap ran, Griffen was in a more traditional offense. It wasn't a pro style offense as we see it now, but they threw the ball a lot whereas Kap ran as much as he threw a lot of the time, and that was a designed part of the offense he played in. I actually agree with you that Griffen is being rated higher than he should be though. He's not nearly as pro ready imo as Luck and doesn't have the running ability of Newton which was a huge part of his success this season. He's a good player, but I think his value has been artificially inflated due to the lack of prospects in this draft at the QB position.

  9. #9
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    HA!

    Kaep's god-awful throwing motion in that pistol offense coming out makes RGIII look like a polished passer (which he isn't) by comparison.

  10. #10
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    I'm dying to know what makes people think RG3 isn't a good passer.

    He's much more like Cam Newton than Kap.
    Mac9, to the true warrior. the ultimate competitor and the most worth adversary any athlete has ever faced off against. He was an inspiration for both his on the field play, off the field contributions and his leadership. The world is now a worse place without him.

    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity" - Justice Antonin Scalia

    "Just because you're the lone voice in the wilderness, it doesn't mean you're wrong."
    - Ghandi

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    I'm dying to know what makes people think RG3 isn't a good passer.

    He's much more like Cam Newton than Kap.
    I think RG3 is more pro ready than Cam Newton was coming out of college and will have a better pro career.

  12. #12
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    I can't imagine how someone can say that about Cam still after what he just came out and proved.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducky View Post
    HA!

    Kaep's god-awful throwing motion in that pistol offense coming out makes RGIII look like a polished passer (which he isn't) by comparison.
    He does have an incredibly akward throwing motion, but the main hang up there was his release and he proved to have the quickest release time of all the QBs in that draft IIRC, as well as pretty solid accuracy. People seem to be misremembering how Kaepernick was talked about this time last year. People were saying everything they are saying about Griffin, only he wasn't rated as high mostly due to his school and offense.

    I really wish YK would chime in.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LASam View Post
    Compared to what Kap ran, Griffen was in a more traditional offense. It wasn't a pro style offense as we see it now, but they threw the ball a lot whereas Kap ran as much as he threw a lot of the time, and that was a designed part of the offense he played in. I actually agree with you that Griffen is being rated higher than he should be though. He's not nearly as pro ready imo as Luck and doesn't iave the running ability of Newton which was a huge part of his success this season. He's a good player, but I think his value has been artificially inflated due to the lack of prospects in this draft at the QB position.
    Fair point, I pretty much agree on all counts. Now, OTOH, Griffin could be an absolute stud. He's incredibly smart and a high character guy, has a rocket arm and great deep ball as Q said and obviously great speed and athleticism. The tools are there and so is the college production. I haven't scouted and broken him down a ton, but scouts seem very split on his passing ability. There's the thread in this forum with scouts talking about top players and the one has him as an elite QB prospect and another says he's less refined as a passer than Mike Vick. I think at the least he's going to need a little time, like Steve Mcnair. Comparing him to Luck especially, is ludicrous IMO, and I quite like Griffin.
    "Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    Fair point, I pretty much agree on all counts. Now, OTOH, Griffin could be an absolute stud. He's incredibly smart and a high character guy, has a rocket arm and great deep ball as Q said and obviously great speed and athleticism. The tools are there and so is the college production. I haven't scouted and broken him down a ton, but scouts seem very split on his passing ability. There's the thread in this forum with scouts talking about top players and the one has him as an elite QB prospect and another says he's less refined as a passer than Mike Vick. I think at the least he's going to need a little time, like Steve Mcnair. Comparing him to Luck especially, is ludicrous IMO, and I quite like Griffin.
    I agree. I like him too, I just think he's being made to be more than he is because there are so few QB options in this draft. The Redskins appear to be hoping lightning strikes twice and they get their Newton. Big gamble.

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