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  1. #16
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    Well -- in the old rules that's what happens when you continue to draft at the top.

    But getting rid of CJ because of a cap? That's crazy.
    "Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    Wow I couldn't possibly disagree more. I don't see how CJ does anything but help us win a super bowl. You have to pay your best players in the NFL.
    It's not a really complicated notion, Nas. If signing Calvin to a historic contract means we can't keep Avril and we can't improve our secondary then we may actually become a weaker team by keeping CJ.

    I don't know anyone that *wants* to let Calvin walk, but Mayhew needs to remain objective about this. He's got to consider the possibility that paying Johnson 20M / year or whatever he's going to demand is simply not feasible.

    The cap pretends to be a hard one, but in the end it jsut isn't and signing CJ won't stop us from doing much.
    I just don't know how true a statement that is. It seems like an optimitic assertion to make. Sometimes it seems like the cap is imaginary when the Redskins and Eagles do their 'over spend - under perform' dance, but I think their contract acrobatics only make it seem like a soft cap. The cap matters.

    Him,Stafford and SUh are going ot be our 3 highest paid players for a long time IMO and that is a great core. What other position would we rather pay that money to?
    If I had my choice I'd take a premier player at any of the following positions over WR; DE, LT, CB, RB, and possibly LB.

    I think all of those positions are more important than WR.

    For what we'll have to pay Calvin we probably could have a premier DE and a really solid RB or LB.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not leading some mob to run Calvin out of town. I'm just saying it's a meaningful decision to pay Calvin what he deserves in the same way that people argue that you can't you can't take a linebacker with the first overall pick in the draft (under the old rules) because it wrecks your teams pay scale.

    If they pay Calvin 18M / year it's going to force us to cut pay somewhere else since the cap isn't growing this year.
    A Drinking Team with a Cycling Problem

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionfan View Post
    But getting rid of CJ because of a cap? That's crazy.
    What if he asks for $20M / year?

    $24M / year?

    How can you claim it's crazy when you have no idea how much his agent is going to ask for in order to extend him? What if the figure is so high that you think his demands would drop if you let him hit free agency?
    A Drinking Team with a Cycling Problem

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cryin Lion View Post
    If I had my choice I'd take a premier player at any of the following positions over WR; DE, LT, CB, RB, and possibly LB.
    Perhaps. But the Lions don't have a premier player at any of those positions. The Lions do have the premier WR.

    So what do you do?
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cryin Lion View Post
    What if he asks for $20M / year?

    $24M / year?

    How can you claim it's crazy when you have no idea how much his agent is going to ask for in order to extend him? What if the figure is so high that you think his demands would drop if you let him hit free agency?
    He's not going to get that from any team. That is 1/5th to 1/6th of the cap.

    Larry Fitz got 8/$120M.
    CJ2K got 6/$56M
    Adrian Peterson got 7/$100M
    Peyton got 5/$90M
    Tom Brady got 5/$79M

    Calvin isn't going to get $20M-$24M.
    "Let's eat Grandma!"..."Let's eat, Grandma!"
    Punctuation saves lives.

    The heavens declare Your glory - X Structure at the Core of Whirlpool Galaxy

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FamineGod View Post
    Perhaps. But the Lions don't have a premier player at any of those positions. The Lions do have the premier WR.

    So what do you do?
    Well thats the $18M dollar question.

    I'm just saying that it's something they really need to think on. It's the kind of choice that these guys get paid millions of dollars to get right, and the right choice might not be the one a lot of the fan base agrees with.
    A Drinking Team with a Cycling Problem

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FamineGod View Post
    He's not going to get that from any team. That is 1/5th to 1/6th of the cap.

    Larry Fitz got 8/$120M.
    CJ2K got 6/$56M
    Adrian Peterson got 7/$100M
    Peyton got 5/$90M
    Tom Brady got 5/$79M

    Calvin isn't going to get $20M-$24M.
    He's going to get more than Fitzgerald did, and Fitz got $15M / year, which is still a significant chunk of the cap. That article earlier indicated that betwen CJ, Stafford, KVB, and Suh, the Lions would soon have 50% of their cap tied up for 2012. They'd probably get some relief for 2012 for extending CJ this year, but they'd pay for it later since presumably Stafford and Suh's cap hit will also grow each year (as rookie contracts seem to be structured that way.)

    I don't know how much CJ is going to command, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were $18M / year since since he's approaching 'fabled WR' status.
    A Drinking Team with a Cycling Problem

  8. #23
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    So I guess we signed a new DB's coach from the Titans which may have triggered speculation that we are in the hunt for Cortland Finnegan:

    http://www.freep.com/article/2012021...tland-Finnegan

    Thats some big time bucks they are talking about.

    PFT also had an interesting article stating that teams can now differ cap space from year X to year X+1, which might seem like good news for us, but in fact it's bad news because we are among the worst 5 teams in the league for cap space in 2011 (it said we were only 1.4M under cap for 2011) AND right now we are projected as around -$2M under cap... meaning over-cap for 2012 right now.

    I don't mean to sound like a broken record but I just have no idea where Lewan is going to free up money to do anything this offseason. We might be lucky to go into 2012 with the talent we have unless Lewan has some powerful cap wizardry up his sleeve.
    A Drinking Team with a Cycling Problem

  9. #24
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    Here's ESPN's NFC North Blog's take on it (emphasis mine)...

    DETROIT LIONS

    In a tight salary-cap situation, can the Lions keep their nucleus together and add where needed?

    Years of high draft positioning made the Lions a talented team but also one facing a cap crunch in 2012. Preliminary cap reconciliation leaves the Lions with $122 million in cap commitments, about $2 million above the estimated $120 million cap. And that total doesn't include three defensive starters who are pending free agents: defensive end Cliff Avril, middle linebacker Stephen Tulloch and cornerback Eric Wright.

    The Lions will need to find ways to shave from that total, whether it's borrowing from future caps -- a tool now available in the NFL's new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) -- or reducing the cap figures in existing contracts.

    As we've discussed, receiver Calvin Johnson should be the first target for a cap-reducing contract extension. He's projected to account for about $22 million against the cap in the final year of his rookie deal. Johnson, quarterback Matthew Stafford, defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh and defensive end Kyle Vanden Bosch are estimated to account for nearly half of the Lions' total cap allotment.

    What does all this mean? We are all figuring out the NFL's new salary-cap rules together, but it's clear the Lions must make some difficult short-term decisions and weigh them against long-term prosperity.
    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/pos...ns-nfc-north-2

    It does look like Lewand and Mayhew have their work cut out for them.
    "Let's eat Grandma!"..."Let's eat, Grandma!"
    Punctuation saves lives.

    The heavens declare Your glory - X Structure at the Core of Whirlpool Galaxy

  10. #25
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    I've been thinking more about this...

    That "$122M in cap commitments for 2012" is a reality even after you consider that prior contracts for Avril, Backus, Tollouch, and Wright are off the books.

    That is a terrifying prospect.
    A Drinking Team with a Cycling Problem

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cryin Lion View Post
    I've been thinking more about this...

    That "$122M in cap commitments for 2012" is a reality even after you consider that prior contracts for Avril, Backus, Tollouch, and Wright are off the books.

    That is a terrifying prospect.
    Perhaps. But, from the sounds of it, Tom Lewand isn't particularly bothered by it.
    "Let's eat Grandma!"..."Let's eat, Grandma!"
    Punctuation saves lives.

    The heavens declare Your glory - X Structure at the Core of Whirlpool Galaxy

  12. #27
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    I found this ESPN NFCN blog blurb interesting...

    Detroit Lions: Like the Bears, Outsiders thinks the Lions need to upgrade their offensive line more than anything else. Based on Outsiders statistics, the Lions had the second-worst run-blocking offensive line in the NFL in 2011. Center Dominic Raiola and right guard Stephen Peterman were particularly to blame. Outsiders' analysis suggested that running backs Jahvid Best and Kevin Smith actually had above-average seasons based on the yardage available to them.
    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/pos...fc-north-needs
    "Let's eat Grandma!"..."Let's eat, Grandma!"
    Punctuation saves lives.

    The heavens declare Your glory - X Structure at the Core of Whirlpool Galaxy

  13. #28
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    More blurbs out there regarding Avril. He's used the words "There is no such thing as a home town discout" and also said he's not sure if he'd hold out if he's franchised.

    I think the only way we keep him is if he hits the open market and decides his value is lower than he expected.
    A Drinking Team with a Cycling Problem

  14. #29
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    Avril also said that, all things being equal, he'd like to remain in Detroit. He understands this is a business. I don't have an issue with what he's saying. He's involved in contract negotiations right now.

    I think they'll try to get a long term deal done before the franchise tag deadline. If they can't, they'll franchise him, in my opinion. Afterall, there are a few teams out there that need to spend some money. A young pass rusher is a good investment, from their point of view, even if you overpay a little.
    "Let's eat Grandma!"..."Let's eat, Grandma!"
    Punctuation saves lives.

    The heavens declare Your glory - X Structure at the Core of Whirlpool Galaxy

  15. #30
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    Well, I wasn't accusing Avril of any wrong doing. I think he's well within his rights to try and make a huge cash fall and he's in no way obligated to give a hometown discount.

    The question is, who do they cut to franchise him (or even extend him). When the new season starts we'll be right at the cap limit.

    Burleson, Cory Williams?

    We no longer have the good old days when we could just cut our prior Top 10 pick because they sucked anyway and save 10 million on next years cap ;)
    A Drinking Team with a Cycling Problem

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