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  1. #31
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    Apr 2003
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    Tiverton RI
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    Quote Originally Posted by DropTheHammer View Post
    Unbelievable, the Panthers have the second fewest players under contract in the league, yet still have the third highest payroll. We're so screwed..

    Of course, the Pats are practically in the same situation as us interestingly enough.
    yeah, but the pats have 22 mill tied up in Stallworth, Colvin and Kelly Washington and pushed 5.5 mill of space into this years cap (however that will be eaten up in SB bonus if they win)

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    4

    Adam........

    Nice work as usual cobber.


    Could you please post the details of Laron Landry's rookie contract and the contract extension signed by Chris Cooley?

    Thanking you in advance.

    PC

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    50

    Odell Thurman

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamJT13 View Post
    Suspended players should be included. If you have names, I can check.
    Odell Thurman is the player in question. If he's included then my calculated cap looks closer (off by $4,640 instead of $26,360) but then there would be 55 players instead of the 54 listed in your report.

    The Bengals' website also shows 54 players on the active roster but that includes S Kyries Hebert who was signed on Jan 2nd. Since he's listed on the NFLPA.org website, I'm assuming his contract had been processed.

    Thanks for the help last year with the signing bonus thing. Were you ever able to track down the details of Willie Anderson's contract? My cap figures overall look spot on, but something seems fishy about his numbers. Thanks!

  4. #34
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    Apr 2003
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    4,468
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnboy View Post
    Odell Thurman is the player in question. If he's included then my calculated cap looks closer (off by $4,640 instead of $26,360) but then there would be 55 players instead of the 54 listed in your report.

    The Bengals' website also shows 54 players on the active roster but that includes S Kyries Hebert who was signed on Jan 2nd. Since he's listed on the NFLPA.org website, I'm assuming his contract had been processed.

    Thanks for the help last year with the signing bonus thing. Were you ever able to track down the details of Willie Anderson's contract? My cap figures overall look spot on, but something seems fishy about his numbers. Thanks!
    I double-checked on the Bengals, and I either miscounted or mistyped. They have 55 players under contract and a total cap commitment of $84,785,810. Thurman and Hebert both are on the list.

    Anderson's cap number is $4.9 million -- $3.15 million salary, $1.2 million proration, $500,000 LTBE and $50,000 workout bonus. There doesn't seem to be anything unusual in his contract.

  5. #35
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    Apr 2003
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    Buffalo
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    912
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamJT13 View Post
    Well, I checked into it, and the Bills used the loophole for a lot more than $5 million. In fact, they were using it little by little all season, starting with Aaron Schobel's extension back in August, when they gave him a $3 million LTBE special teams incentive -- which I'm assuming he didn't earn and never was intended to earn (why else would they insert it?).

    They followed that by adding bogus incentives to the contracts of Tim Massaquoi ($2 million) in November, Leon Joe ($2.5 million) and Shaud Williams ($3.5 million) in early December and Corey Mace ($1 million) and Scott Mayle ($1 million) at the end of December.

    Add up all of those, and it's $13 million in bogus LTBE incentives that will push cap room forward. And that doesn't include Brian Moorman's $1 million LTBE Pro Bowl incentive that he didn't earn this year.

    It looks like the Bills took a cue from the Vikings (who had a $12 million bogus LTBE in Pat Williams' contract alone).

    Can you give me breakdown of Schobel's extension?

    I also need contract info for OL Dockery, OL Walker, RB Lynch, LB Posluszny, and remaining year(s) of WR Lee Evans (can he void 2009?)

    thanks

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    50

    I was just about to ask...

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamJT13 View Post
    I'll check into it. At some point, I'll list every team that pushed cap room forward, how much and the players involved. But I'm still waiting for some info on that.
    I was just about to ask for this info, but you're already on top of it! Another interesting bit of info would be a list of players with sizeable roster bonuses just before the start of free agency.

  7. #37
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    Apr 2003
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    Panther Land
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    Quote Originally Posted by DropTheHammer View Post
    Unbelievable, the Panthers have the second fewest players under contract in the league, yet still have the third highest payroll. We're so screwed..
    The Panthers are not in as bad of shape as the numbers indicate.
    There is about 8 mil that will carry over from last year due to LTBEs that where not achived.
    There will be 5 mil more freed up when Smith's roster bonus is prorated for the rest of his contract.
    Over 15 mil of that cap is due to Peppers and there is no way that deal will not get reworked.
    Cutting Carr will save 2 mil
    Cutting or reworking Morgan, Foster and Wahle, all of which will happen, will save another 16 to 18 mil

    When adding all those things up it will add 30 to 40 mil to the Panthers cap space

  8. #38
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    Jun 2005
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    3,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Pantherfan Griz View Post
    The Panthers are not in as bad of shape as the numbers indicate.
    There is about 8 mil that will carry over from last year due to LTBEs that where not achived.
    There will be 5 mil more freed up when Smith's roster bonus is prorated for the rest of his contract.
    Over 15 mil of that cap is due to Peppers and there is no way that deal will not get reworked.
    Cutting Carr will save 2 mil
    Cutting or reworking Morgan, Foster and Wahle, all of which will happen, will save another 16 to 18 mil

    When adding all those things up it will add 30 to 40 mil to the Panthers cap space
    Yeah, I made that comment before I read Darin Gantt's article the other day which explained all of that. The only potential cap casualty I would keep around is Wahle, he's overpaid but I don't see anyone out there who would be that much more cost effective.

    The big question though, what to do with Peppers? I think Hurney goes overboard sometimes restructuring contracts and because of that we're in this situation. Depending on how much cap room we actually have maybe the Panthers will eat that 15 million this season and slap the franchise tag on him in 2009, I kind of doubt that though.

  9. #39
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    Apr 2003
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    Buffalo
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabal View Post
    Can you give me breakdown of Schobel's extension?

    I also need contract info for OL Dockery, OL Walker, RB Lynch, LB Posluszny, and remaining year(s) of WR Lee Evans (can he void 2009?)

    thanks
    Adam, could you also include Moorman's breakdown also?

    Thanks

  10. #40
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    Mar 2005
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    37
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamJT13 View Post
    1) These numbers take the Rule of 51 into account. For those who aren't familiar with the rule, during the offseason, the only base salaries that count against the cap are those of the players with the 51 highest cap numbers on the team. For anyone outside the top 51, their base salary does not count, but everything else does (bonus prorations, etc.). All dead money also counts. For teams with 51 or more players already under contract (or tendered, when those have been made), anyone added to the cap who becomes part of the team's top 51 will knock the base salary of whoever was lowest in the top 51 off the cap. For example, if No. 51 has a base salary of $295,000 and a team signs a player with a 2008 cap number of $1 million, the new player will reduce that team's cap room by only $705,000 (while the $1 million was added to the cap, the $295,000 was knocked off the cap).

    2) They count all bonuses and prorations currently scheduled to be charged against the 2008 cap. All roster and option bonuses are applied to the cap as they would be if they were paid, unless or until they're not paid.
    Do these numbers take Deion credits into account?

  11. #41
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    Mar 2007
    Posts
    50

    Cap adjustments

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamJT13 View Post
    I'll check into it. At some point, I'll list every team that pushed cap room forward, how much and the players involved. But I'm still waiting for some info on that.
    Adam, any updates on this one?

  12. #42
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    Apr 2003
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    Buffalo
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    Or my requests about the Bills? :o

  13. #43
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    Jun 2002
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    Bethlehem, Pa
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    Can you break down all the contracts of the Miami Dolphins, not just current, but past as well.

    Also if you have time, I need some tech support.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    2,110
    Quote Originally Posted by Pantherfan Griz View Post
    The Panthers are not in as bad of shape as the numbers indicate.
    There is about 8 mil that will carry over from last year due to LTBEs that where not achived.
    There will be 5 mil more freed up when Smith's roster bonus is prorated for the rest of his contract.
    Over 15 mil of that cap is due to Peppers and there is no way that deal will not get reworked.
    Cutting Carr will save 2 mil
    Cutting or reworking Morgan, Foster and Wahle, all of which will happen, will save another 16 to 18 mil

    When adding all those things up it will add 30 to 40 mil to the Panthers cap space
    Similar story with the Colts. After McFarland is cut, the Colts will be about 16 million under. We'll probably see some restructures as well.

  15. #45
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    Apr 2003
    Location
    london, canada
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    9,436
    Last year saw a once in a decade jump in the cap due to the signings of new TV deals with the networks.
    A long list of veterans are expecting salary increases as they have fallen way behind the new player contracts so a lot of the cap $$$ will be used to placate them. You also have to remember that a lot of teams hide $$$ in bogus player incentive contracts which are never met. These teams can have at any time 7 or 8 million free money just in case a top high paid veteran gets hurt and has to be replaced.
    Teams that choose to spend their money on FA's rather than placate a lot of angry veterans may have great difficulty resigning their veterans down the road when their contracts expire. So cap $$$ can be misleading until veteran's salaries catch up with the huge increase in the cap.

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