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  1. #16
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    Apr 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by chawk View Post
    Adam, thanks for the info. A couple of questions:

    1) Do these salary commitments count all signed players or just the top 51?

    2) Are upcoming roster/option bonuses calculated into that salary total? Or do bonuses only count once they are paid?
    1) These numbers take the Rule of 51 into account. For those who aren't familiar with the rule, during the offseason, the only base salaries that count against the cap are those of the players with the 51 highest cap numbers on the team. For anyone outside the top 51, their base salary does not count, but everything else does (bonus prorations, etc.). All dead money also counts. For teams with 51 or more players already under contract (or tendered, when those have been made), anyone added to the cap who becomes part of the team's top 51 will knock the base salary of whoever was lowest in the top 51 off the cap. For example, if No. 51 has a base salary of $295,000 and a team signs a player with a 2008 cap number of $1 million, the new player will reduce that team's cap room by only $705,000 (while the $1 million was added to the cap, the $295,000 was knocked off the cap).

    2) They count all bonuses and prorations currently scheduled to be charged against the 2008 cap. All roster and option bonuses are applied to the cap as they would be if they were paid, unless or until they're not paid.

  2. #17
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    Apr 2003
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    Buffalo
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    912
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamJT13 View Post
    I'll check into it. At some point, I'll list every team that pushed cap room forward, how much and the players involved. But I'm still waiting for some info on that.

    Thanks Adam :)

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    183
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamJT13 View Post
    1) These numbers take the Rule of 51 into account.
    2) They count all bonuses and prorations currently scheduled to be charged against the 2008 cap. All roster and option bonuses are applied to the cap as they would be if they were paid, unless or until they're not paid.
    As I thought. Thank you, Adam.

    One last question: Any chance you can get the specs on the deal Jordan Babineaux signed with the Seahawks last September? It was reported as five years, $10 million, with incentives that could make it $17 million, and a $3 million bonus. I'm wondering how the bonus money is broken down (signing, roster or option) and what the incentives are. Any chance you can access that deal?

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    50

    Suspended players?

    Adam,

    I'm assuming (based on the # of players listed under contract) that suspended players aren't included in the salary cap commitment figures you published. Can you explain this a bit more? I thought that the base salary wasn't included, but that prorated signing bonus would be.

    Thanks!

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    4,468
    Quote Originally Posted by rabal View Post
    It was reported in the Buffalo Snooze that the Bills used the NLTBE loophole to transfer $5 million to 2008

    Can you confirm this Adam?
    Well, I checked into it, and the Bills used the loophole for a lot more than $5 million. In fact, they were using it little by little all season, starting with Aaron Schobel's extension back in August, when they gave him a $3 million LTBE special teams incentive -- which I'm assuming he didn't earn and never was intended to earn (why else would they insert it?).

    They followed that by adding bogus incentives to the contracts of Tim Massaquoi ($2 million) in November, Leon Joe ($2.5 million) and Shaud Williams ($3.5 million) in early December and Corey Mace ($1 million) and Scott Mayle ($1 million) at the end of December.

    Add up all of those, and it's $13 million in bogus LTBE incentives that will push cap room forward. And that doesn't include Brian Moorman's $1 million LTBE Pro Bowl incentive that he didn't earn this year.

    It looks like the Bills took a cue from the Vikings (who had a $12 million bogus LTBE in Pat Williams' contract alone).

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,468
    Quote Originally Posted by chawk View Post
    As I thought. Thank you, Adam.

    One last question: Any chance you can get the specs on the deal Jordan Babineaux signed with the Seahawks last September? It was reported as five years, $10 million, with incentives that could make it $17 million, and a $3 million bonus. I'm wondering how the bonus money is broken down (signing, roster or option) and what the incentives are. Any chance you can access that deal?
    It wasn't quite that much. It was a five-year extension, in addition to the 2007 season. Counting all six years, it's a little more than $10 million, plus $4 million in escalators. He got a $2.25 million signing bonus and has a $700,000 roster bonus due in March. He has $50,000 workout bonuses in 2009 to 2012. And he has $1 million escalators each season from 2009 to 2012, but I don't have the details on how he could earn them.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Minneapolis
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    18,655
    Quote Originally Posted by The 49er Legacy View Post
    Say what you will about Mike Nolan on gameday, but the 49ers are in GREAT cap shape. Holy crap.

    They need to roll out some red carpet this offseason for skill positions and pass rushers.
    Really easy to stay out of cap problems when you don't have any good players to resign. ;)

    ....and thank you for the quality info Adam. :)
    Last edited by ducky; 01-24-2008 at 09:56 PM.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Buffalo
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    912
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamJT13 View Post
    Well, I checked into it, and the Bills used the loophole for a lot more than $5 million. In fact, they were using it little by little all season, starting with Aaron Schobel's extension back in August, when they gave him a $3 million LTBE special teams incentive -- which I'm assuming he didn't earn and never was intended to earn (why else would they insert it?).

    They followed that by adding bogus incentives to the contracts of Tim Massaquoi ($2 million) in November, Leon Joe ($2.5 million) and Shaud Williams ($3.5 million) in early December and Corey Mace ($1 million) and Scott Mayle ($1 million) at the end of December.

    Add up all of those, and it's $13 million in bogus LTBE incentives that will push cap room forward. And that doesn't include Brian Moorman's $1 million LTBE Pro Bowl incentive that he didn't earn this year.

    It looks like the Bills took a cue from the Vikings (who had a $12 million bogus LTBE in Pat Williams' contract alone).

    WOW! Thanks again Adam :D

  9. #24
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4,481
    Thanks for all the good and useful info, Adam. Looking forward to your comp picks projection later in the offseason.
    "Worry is a misuse of imagination."

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    4,468
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnboy View Post
    Adam,

    I'm assuming (based on the # of players listed under contract) that suspended players aren't included in the salary cap commitment figures you published. Can you explain this a bit more? I thought that the base salary wasn't included, but that prorated signing bonus would be.
    Suspended players should be included. If you have names, I can check.

    If you're basing it on the number of players signed being off by one or two for a particular team, it could just be that one or two players who reportedly signed recently hadn't had their contracts processed yet.
    Last edited by AdamJT13; 01-24-2008 at 11:43 PM.

  11. #26
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    Apr 2003
    Location
    State of Redocrat
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    10,052
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCoughlin View Post
    Wait, the Giants need upgrades at ALL defensive positions? Some yes, but ALL? They must really suck.
    Excluding Antonio Pierce, few posters can name a Giants starting linebacker. They can use upgrades at both DT positions and depth in the secondary.

    Prepared to get back on subject.
    Last edited by Vols44; 01-25-2008 at 01:51 AM.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    44
    Thanks for the great info.

    Question on the Steelers, if you can find this info I would appreciate it.

    1- Piecing Polamalu's deal together, I figured he has $4.4 million in roster bonus. Do you know when and how much these roster bonuses are?
    http://www.steelersalarycap.com/player/TroyPolamalu.htm

    2- Timmon's contract was reported to be worth close to $12 million with $8.053 million in guarantees. The numbers from USA Today seem to indicate he had a $1,114,000 roster bonus with no signing bonus in 07. Do you know how much his bonus will be in 08? or any other info?
    http://www.steelersalarycap.com/play...nceTimmons.htm

    Again, thanks for the great info.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamJT13 View Post
    It wasn't quite that much. It was a five-year extension, in addition to the 2007 season. Counting all six years, it's a little more than $10 million, plus $4 million in escalators. He got a $2.25 million signing bonus and has a $700,000 roster bonus due in March. He has $50,000 workout bonuses in 2009 to 2012. And he has $1 million escalators each season from 2009 to 2012, but I don't have the details on how he could earn them.
    No worries on the details. That breakdown was just fine. Thanks Adam!

  14. #29
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    Apr 2003
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    4,468
    Quote Originally Posted by steelersalaryca View Post
    Thanks for the great info.

    Question on the Steelers, if you can find this info I would appreciate it.

    1- Piecing Polamalu's deal together, I figured he has $4.4 million in roster bonus. Do you know when and how much these roster bonuses are?
    Polamalu has roster bonuses of $3 million in 2008 and $1.4 million in 2009.

    2- Timmon's contract was reported to be worth close to $12 million with $8.053 million in guarantees. The numbers from USA Today seem to indicate he had a $1,114,000 roster bonus with no signing bonus in 07. Do you know how much his bonus will be in 08?
    Timmons has a $5.515 million option bonus due this season. He also has roster bonuses of $259,750 in 2009, $519,500 in 2010 and $769,250 in 2011.

  15. #30
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    Apr 2003
    Location
    Canton MA
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    Nice work Adam, you and Miguel should start a consulting firm and sell your expertese to NFL teams.

    However while I find these cap lists interesting, I doen't think they tell you much at this point. I think after 3/1 you will get a better feel for things. At that point roster bonuses are usually do. All the incentiventive bonuses with be accounted for. Most of the cap cuts, or renegotiated contracts will be accounted for. The new cap number will become a fact, not a supposition.

    It will be at THAT point that we will have a decent idea of where your particular team stands against the cap. Too often you see teams like the Colts, who look like they are in cap purgatory, end up with enough room to make some moves, and resign players.

    All I know is that the Pats will have "some" room to maneuver and will probably wind up in the middle of the pack after all the fall out.

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