Thoughts on the division & early predictions

[AZSTEELER]

Not to get too long-winded when camp hasn't started yet, but what are everyone's early thoughts on the North? (This ended up being pretty long-winded)

Baltimore: They are the obvious choice to repeat as champs. But they have a couple potential problems. The first is the potential powder keg of the Jamal Lewis trial. Worst case scenario is that he goes to jail, but I don't think that will happen. The most likely problem is that the trial somehow bleeds into the season. I could see the team being distracted and not playing well the first couple of games. Could that impact a fairly competetive division? The second problem is at QB. If Jamal Lewis isn't there to take the brunt of the defensive schemes, they may be in deep crap. Boller never showed much last year and he gets no help from the receivers. Travis Taylor is up and down and a tight end can only be so effective.

Cincinnati: They had an excellent year (for them) last year falling just short of the playoffs. The offense was solid and the defense was pretty bad, but they found ways to win. Kitna finally topped out and couldn't get them over the hump. That brings us to essentially a rookie in Carson Palmer. It's not like this guy played well for even two years at SC, so I predict lots of problems early in the year. That is mainly because their running game is suspect. While Corey Dillon is insane, he was at least a threat to go off. Rudi Johnson was nice, but can he handle the load as a starter? If not, who is afraid of Chris Perry? Anyone...please someone! May have upgraded the defense, but they will be on the field a lot. Good set of receivers, but can Carson get them the ball?

Cleveland: This team could be interesting. Every year there is a surprise team who gets off to a great start. Could Cleveland be that team? Probably not, but look at the intangibles. Jeff Garcia is a guy who can move, so the crappy O-line may look a little better. He can actually hit receivers, unlike Tim Couch, and their receiving corps are dangerous. William Green has to be able to stay away from the graphite, or Lee Suggs will take his job. When will Winslow play is the $64,000 question. He could have an instant impact on this offense and that unit will keep them in games. A terrible defense will be their downfall, but don't be surprised if they jump up and bite some people.

Pittsburgh: I will not even get started on them since there are a couple threads detailing our strengths/weaknesses.

'04 final standings:

Pittsburgh
Baltimore
Cleveland
Cincinnati

That is my very amateur analysis and I would like to see what everyone else thinks of my crap and your opinions. Am I underestimating Cincy? They are a very trendy pick to win the division right now. Can Jeff Garcia make that much of a difference? Will Jamal Lewis be made into a *****, thus casting Baltimore down the same path? Am I the biggest freaking Steelers apologist ever? I firmly believe our line and a rejuvinated Dick Lebeau-led defense will get this team back to the top. This division is the new Black & Blue and the winner will have to catch a few breaks.

I'm sure Miguel will have some things to say. Let's here you spin it this year old boy!

[haven]

Baltimore: They are the obvious choice to repeat as champs. But they have a couple potential problems. The first is the potential powder keg of the Jamal Lewis trial. Worst case scenario is that he goes to jail, but I don't think that will happen. The most likely problem is that the trial somehow bleeds into the season. I could see the team being distracted and not playing well the first couple of games. Could that impact a fairly competetive division? The second problem is at QB. If Jamal Lewis isn't there to take the brunt of the defensive schemes, they may be in deep crap. Boller never showed much last year and he gets no help from the receivers. Travis Taylor is up and down and a tight end can only be so effective.

The court system is so slow it doesn't appear as though the Lewis trial will occur until mid-February or later. The Ravens are what they are.... Probably a 9 win team, but that should be good enough in this division.

Cincinnati: They had an excellent year (for them) last year falling just short of the playoffs. The offense was solid and the defense was pretty bad, but they found ways to win. Kitna finally topped out and couldn't get them over the hump. That brings us to essentially a rookie in Carson Palmer. It's not like this guy played well for even two years at SC, so I predict lots of problems early in the year. That is mainly because their running game is suspect. While Corey Dillon is insane, he was at least a threat to go off. Rudi Johnson was nice, but can he handle the load as a starter? If not, who is afraid of Chris Perry? Anyone...please someone! May have upgraded the defense, but they will be on the field a lot. Good set of receivers, but can Carson get them the ball?

The receivers are so good that they will get their yards, first year starter at QB or not... Dillon hardly played last year. Johnson and Perry are a very solid pairing IMO. The defense should be improved. Even if Palmer has problems I still see 8 wins. Could be significantly better.

Cleveland: This team could be interesting. Every year there is a surprise team who gets off to a great start. Could Cleveland be that team? Probably not, but look at the intangibles. Jeff Garcia is a guy who can move, so the crappy O-line may look a little better. He can actually hit receivers, unlike Tim Couch, and their receiving corps are dangerous. William Green has to be able to stay away from the graphite, or Lee Suggs will take his job. When will Winslow play is the $64,000 question. He could have an instant impact on this offense and that unit will keep them in games. A terrible defense will be their downfall, but don't be surprised if they jump up and bite some people.

I honestly think the Browns are a train wreck waiting to happen. The offensive line is a joke. Garcia is an injury waiting to happen. The wideouts are mediocre. Green and Suggs are OK, but it won't matter all that much behind that offensive line. The defensive line is a group of underacheivers and the secondary lacks talent. Butch Davis is in over his head. Just a disaster.

Pittsburgh: I will not even get started on them since there are a couple threads detailing our strengths/weaknesses.

Lack of depth scares me. Could be OK if everything breaks right, but an injury to Marvel, Faneca, Duce, or any starting defensive lineman or linebacker would be a major blow. I like Taylor and Colclough for the future, but corner position for this year is still evry weak IMO. Scott stinks. Townsend is a good nickel miscast as a starter. Just too many things have to break perfectly for me to feel good about the Steelers chances.


My '04 final standings:

9-7 Baltimore
8-8 Cincinnati
7-9 Pittsburgh
4-12 Cleveland

From where I sit this is the worst division in football with no team having more than a remote chance to make noise in the playoffs. Picking the Steelers to be under .500 and to finish third in this division really pains me. I wish I could be more optimistic

[Meandean]

I think Haven is pretty close to the money. I could see Balt, Cincy and the Steelers all finishing right around .500. All are decent to good teams but nothing special. Cleveland is likely to bring up the rear. If Garcia regains the form that made him a fantasy favorite in SF, he and their recievers can hurt ya bad but the running game is average at best and the defense has serious issues.

Baltimore is probably a lock to be 8-8 or 9-7. With that defense and running game (if J. Lewis plays) I don't see them dropping much. With all the questions surrounding their passing game I also think this is the team with the least upside of the three division contenders. The only receiver they have that impresses me is Heap. Lots of questions about Boller. Everyone is questioning Palmer's college credentials but Boller's are even worse.

Cincy has a lot of upside if Palmer comes around. Very good wideouts and the running game should stay productive. Don't know much about the defense but anyone that was courting Gildong seriously can't be too impressive. Marvin Lewis has taken control of the team and shown that a lot of other teams made a big mistake when they passed on him as a HC. Good for him!

The Steelers are a total wild card in my mind. Are they the team from two years ago that fought hard every week (well, almost every week - I remembered the Texans game) and almost made it to the title game or are they the scrubs who mailed it in last year? I think they will be closer to the former. Hopefully the oline will stay healthy and Tommy will return to productivity. I like the short-term addition of Duce. I think he and the Bus will complement each other well. The defense can't help but improve. I'm excited to have Lebeau's attacking style of d back in the Burg. If nothing else, I think we have some very good young players on the roster and the future is looking brighter.

[Muscle]

You guys are ALL wrong. Write this down on July 21, 2004, Muscle predicted the Steelers will finish 12-4, win their division, finish with 2nd best record in the AFC, get a first round bye, play the New England (gag) Patriots in the AFC Championship game, beat the Patriots by 17, en route to a Super Bowl victory over the Philadephia Eagles!

Wham, you heard it here first! :eek:

[RussJT]

Damn, Muscle, I hope you are right, but I can't get myself to believe that we will be much better than 8-8.

As much as I hate to do it, I'll pick the Ravens to win the division at 9-7 (maybe even 10-6). We will tie the Bengals for 2nd place at 8-8 at best (both missing the playoffs) with the Browns being lucky to draft out of the top 10. (I think Garcia will be a bust and the defense will be picked apart... although I could see Winslow having his best game of the season against us as we choke against them in Cleveland.)

[BobbleHead]

This whole division has a lot of question marks. Every team has a question mark at quarterback. I think Tommy is a real good quarterback when given time. Garcia will probably get hurt. Palmer doesn't impress anybody and Boller has a great arm, but he seems like a moron to me.

The Ratbirds have a weak offense, but their defense keeps them in every game. Their secondary deserves more credit. They are a suberb unit. Ray Lewis is great in the middle, no matter how much I hate him. Jamal Lewis is a beast. He is more important to the team than Ray Lewis. He has to be great for this team to get to the playoffs, because of their horrid WR corps and their lucky Tara Reid-dating dolt of a QB. One major injury to a Lewis or Chris McCallister and this team could be finished in a hurry.

The Browns cannot compete due to their defense.

The Bengals can't be much better than 8-8 or 9-7. They just aren't that talented. Their WR's are good. They are very well coached. Their defense isn't great. Their defense is solid, but not special. This team just isn't going to awe anybody. They will sneak up on some teams, but they won't contend for a Super Bowl.

The Steelers are similar to the Ravens in that one major injury could ruin our playoff chances. If a Ward, a Hampton, or a Faneca, etc. go down, this team just doesn't have the depth to rectify the loss. On offense, we could score 25-30 points a game if our offensive line plays well and remains healthy(especially Marvel). On defense, hopefully Chad Scott quits or is traded or is cut or just goes away, our chances increase. Ike Taylor is the man for his job and should be given the opportunity. Elsewhere on defense, we are pretty solid. We should create some turnovers and really get after quarterbacks with LeBeau calling the plays. I'm calling that Antwaan Randle El will be our Dante Hall this year--but without the help of uncalled clips and holds.


This division is a crapshoot with a lot of question marks, but those are my two cents.

[BlackandGold]

I'm not going to consider injuries, because they are totally unpredictable.

I hate to say this but.....

I think evevthough you guys are picking Baltimore to win the North, I think you're still underestimating them, a little. Baltimore has only 1 weakness, but its more like a big question mark. That would be the QB. Thier defense is dominant, and thier running game is dominant. Thier WR's are average. They aquired Kevin Johnson, and while he's no superstar he is a quality WR. Pair that with Heap and you have enough of a passing game to keep teams honest.

Cincy, will be basically what they were last year IMO. Palmer will struggle because he's basically a rookie. The running game will be fine but not dominant like Baltimore. R. Johnson and Perry will be just fine. The defense will be better, but again, not dominant. To me Cincy is like Ravens Light, with much better WR's.

Cleveland will be a high wire act from the beginning of the season. I think they have the talent to do some pretty good things on offense, but can't be consistent with an O-line that will be a little better, but not good enough. Thier defense probably won't be any better than last year. I think one of two things will happen with Cleveland. They'll start well, but it'll finish badly or they'll get off to a terrible start and finish strong. Either way it won't be enough to print post-season tickets.

I think we are the wild card in the division. We have the second best defense in the division. Our run defense is top notch and our pass defense will be improved. (It improved as soon as Townsend moved into the lineup last year). I think we'll have the best offense in the division. We'll have more balance on offense than Baltimore and Maddox has proven a little more than Carson Palmer. IMO that's the only thing that separates us from Cincy. By the end of the season, thier offense COULD be better than ours.

I think Baltimore has about a 60-40 chance of winning the division, with Cincy and Pittsburgh about a 50-50 chance. It'll all come down to ease of schedule, and you really don't know how easy you're schedule is until halfway through the season.

I'm optimistic. Remember we went from a non playoff season to the most dominant team in the AFC.

[AZSTEELER]

There have been some great points here and I will stick to my original prediction because of one thing in the NFL. You just don't know what will happen anymore.

How fast does everyone forget our dismantling of the great Ravens in the first game last year? We were completely healthy and played like we were supposed to. Why can't this team do that all year if they stay healthy?

Threre are a couple things I would disagree with as far as the ravens and bengals go. One, the ravens aren't even average and the TE position can be deceptive. TE's rarely get more than 5 TD's a year and 750 yards. So Heap doesn't exactly open things up all that much. I think he only had 3 TD's last year. Don't underestimate the struggles of Palmer. Everyone always hears how much faster the game is when you get in there. I think Palmer will struggle and that will start a QB controversy by game 4 when the season starts to slide.

The other thing I want to address is our depth. If our team is playing well, depth is less of an issue. We can survive one LB going down or one DL going down. It's when 3 or 4 guys go down that you have an issue and that goes for every single team. We need to start looking at the glass as half full.

[STEELDOGG]

No use rehashing the great points made by the posters above. :D

STEELERS 9-7
BENGALS 9-7
RAVENS 9-7
BROWNS 6-10

[Meandean]

You guys are ALL wrong. Write this down on July 21, 2004, Muscle predicted the Steelers will finish 12-4, win their division, finish with 2nd best record in the AFC, get a first round bye, play the New England (gag) Patriots in the AFC Championship game, beat the Patriots by 17, en route to a Super Bowl victory over the Philadephia Eagles!

Wham, you heard it here first! :eek:

SO NOTED! THE FIRST STEELERS CHAMPIONSHIP PREDICTION OF THE YEAR! JULY 21, by Muscle!

[loaf221]

You guys are ALL wrong. Write this down on July 21, 2004, Muscle predicted the Steelers will finish 12-4, win their division, finish with 2nd best record in the AFC, get a first round bye, play the New England (gag) Patriots in the AFC Championship game, beat the Patriots by 17, en route to a Super Bowl victory over the Philadephia Eagles!

Wham, you heard it here first! :eek:

No no, mark THIS one down. I agree with everything but two things... We will beat the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Championship enroute to a Super Bowl victory over the Dallas Cowboys. Considering this will be the ten year anniversary of Super Bowl XXX, I think it would be pretty awesome. Hey, a guy can dream can't he? =)

[Canada]

You guys are ALL wrong. Write this down on July 21, 2004, Muscle predicted the Steelers will finish 12-4, win their division, finish with 2nd best record in the AFC, get a first round bye, play the New England (gag) Patriots in the AFC Championship game, beat the Patriots by 17, en route to a Super Bowl victory over the Philadephia Eagles!

Wham, you heard it here first! :eek:
\




Word brutha Muscle.

[Mikey6866]

here it is again. LOL

12-4........like I have said all along ......Muscle you know absolutely nothing about football. Everybody on the Steelers could have Career years and they would not be 12-4. :confused:

The Bengals will win the division. Get used to it now so it doesnt hurt so bad later. You can consider Carson a question mark all your want. He will still be better than Kitna was last year. Yes thats right I said better than Kitna was last year. Kitna had a solid year but not spectatular like every body seems to think. He still made alot of stupid mistakes. He played really well in the wins that we got but he also played poorly in most of the losses. He was the main reason for the losses at Oakland and Arizona. Must have a better run D this year to take it to the next level. 9-7

Ravens: Jamal Lewis trial could get in the way. Could also be suspended by the league for the substance abuse policy while trial is going on. Mcalister is reportedly holding out. Even bigger ? at QB than the Bengals. If they lose Jamal for any length they will be struggling. 8-8

Steelers: As I predicted last year dead on may I add. Secondary is still a big question mark. Teams will be torching them all year long again. OL still has some issues, and contrary to most Steeler fans Duece is NOT a blue chip RB. He was a 3rd stringer splitting time in Philly for the last couple of years. Great trio of WR's but Hines and Plax both having contract issues, but I dont think they will let that effect them. Tommy is still Tommy "Turnover Tommy". 7-9

Cleveland: The mistake by the lake. Lee Suggs is promising. O-Line will hinder his progress. Garcia is in the 1st year of the sytem and is primarily a dump off type of QB. Dont think the offense will be that explosive. Defense gave up about 600 yards in 2 games to Jamal Lewis.......pathetic. Probably the only team in the league last year that was worse than the Bengals at stopping the run. 5-11

[Diamondeye]

1. Baltimore----Plain and simple; best running game and defense in the division, maybe the league. Elite players everywhere (with the exception of QB and WR). I don't think the Jamal Lewis situation we have an effect on his playing status and McCalister threatens to holdout every year. A 10-6 caliber team, and though I'm not a Kyle Boller fan, could be a 12-13 win team if they can develop just a decent passing game.

2. Pittsburgh----success will be a product of whether or not the offensive line can rebound with the return to health of Marvel Smith and Kendall Simmons. If the line can get back on track, the offense has the potential to be explosive. Tommy Gun can still be lethal with the aid of decent protection and a running game. I think Staley is solid but not great. Hines Ward and Plaxico Burress form the best receiving tandem in the division. The defense has more questions than answers. The run defense is the best in the division, however can Clark Haggans or Alonzo Jackson step up and provide a solid rush from the right side to take pressure off Joey Porter? Can second year players like Ike Taylor and Troy Polamalu step up and improve the secondary? I don't know. My gut feeling is that the offense will get back on track and have a good year. The defense, however, will struggle early with a ton of youth in the secondary but improve as the season progresses. I can see a 10-6 record with an early playoff exit.

3. Cincinnatti----Not often do first year starting QB's make an impact, with Daunte Culpepper being the most recent exception in 2000. If Palmer plays well, the offense can be one of the best in football. The backs, line, and receivers are all solid. I guess if Palmer falters, they could probably go back to the solid Kitna, but risk ruining Palmer's development in the process. Outside of the linebackers, the defense just doesn't impress me at all. The secondary, pass rush, and run defense all leave something to be desired. I can see nothing more than 8-9 wins from this team.

4. Cleveland---What a mess. Overall, the Browns may just have the best group of skill players in the division with Garcia, Green, Suggs, Morgan, Davis, and Winslow. The problem is their o-line, front 7, and secondary may all be the worst. They have nothing but poor drafting to blame for that. Garcia's mobility should cut down the sack total but it's hard to generate consistent offense when your o-line struggles to open up holes and your QB is running for his life nearly everytime he drops back. I'm fairly confident that we board members could assemble a team that could run on their front 7. I also personally think that Butch Davis is the worst HC in the league. 6 wins would be an accomplishment for this team.

[Muscle]

here it is again. LOL

12-4........like I have said all along ......Muscle you know absolutely nothing about football. Everybody on the Steelers could have Career years and they would not be 12-4. :confused:



Glad you liked my prediction and thought it was funny. If you thought it was funny, you should hear my prediction about you when you finally reach puberty. :p

[LostCause2003]

Basically, my feelings are the same as most here.

While you do have a lot more question marks about other QBs in the division, BAL still has, basically, the same makeup as last year. I wouldn't look for too much, if any, to be missed from Lewis's legal problems. The actual trial will not start until after the league champioships in january, and could go into feb. Also, the running game will not be as large as last year. The teams in the league know what is coming now with lewis running everywhere; I'll come back to this later.

BAL plays the whole div early and gets those early games out of the way. They should all be split and close. Then comes washington and a KC, then their bye, which they will probably need. The rest of the games go up and down as to what gets done and what doesn't. The fun one will be week 8 in philly on halloween. This will be when you know that balt will win the division, or won't. If they don't beat philly and beat up on owens, I doubt they will be able to handle Dallas, and playing back through the division.

Cincy will fin second in the division this year. Not because of the problems of changing to a 'non-dillon' team, nor with the QB situation, but because of what will happen to the DEF. They will perform as SEA DEF did last year, there will be a lot of early greatness and then it will slowly fall off to injury, or play as the season enters the backend. This is beginning to be the same situation around the league. Just like third year WRs, and second year RBs, there are the 'improved def that fall mid year the following year' DEFs abound.

Cincy carries a few tough teams in the middle of the season with three games(DEN, @TEN, DAL) that you will see brilliance, or Kitna trotting out. This is where cincy becomes the spoiler, or dominates the division. They are lucky enough to have their toughest game last, vs. the philly iggles.

The brownies got what they wanted at QB, no dispute. Bringing in Garcia, whether at his prime or not is like bringing in Gannon, without the MVP trophy. But that also raises some questions about his health, and about the line, as Garcia likes to run in for TDs. RB is a huge question mark, but suggs should get the looks as Green always has ???'s around him. The receivers aren't grand, as is the DEF.

Cleveland has the toughest schedule in the division. It makes sense to see them falling to a 5-11 or 6-10 record, jsut because they will have games to win, but they also have a lot of what-ifs and 'history has said's that will materialize as their record falls.

PIT, PIT, PIT...what can I say? They got a QB who has had a great set of mini-camps for what we needed, and we still have somebody experienced and charasmatic. But, that raises a few eyebrows when opinions are asked on who should be in and not. After all, big ben is a 'PIT' player if I ever saw one. RB wasn't too impressive on pickups. Nothing against staley, but I would rather have a Hambrick here, or a wheatley, or George....hell even garner almost had a 1000/1000 season a few years ago, and might have been more productive with a better/healthier line. Our WR questions are like our secondary questions now, will the quesitons fall onto to them and make them slower/worse/bad or will they play like they are expected? I hope it's the latter, but who knows with this team.

Middle of PIT schedule, as with the other teams, is pain. After the bye, we got NE and PHI...like what the hell. These will be games where our DEF will need to perform. If they can, they will be big wins. If not, then we won't go far to make it to the playoffs, let alone into the playoffs. I don't like the extreme flux betweens teams that are strong, and teams that aren't, but so is the case.

The thing that I want to mention is that this year will hold a very tough set of opponents from the NFC East. These teams are high on defense and all primed to make a two-team from a division run that is the case in other divisions. However, each team(minus the giants), makes a damn good case for it in their free-agent acquisitions and drafting. So, WAS, PHI and DAL will be a 'put-up-or-shut-up' set of games that will be good to watch, depending on who you are a fan of(or like me, and jsut a big fan of football).

Okay, that all being said, here is my final result for the division:

Baltimore 9-7
Cincy 8-8(could be more with palmer doing well)
PIT 8-8(will be more if they get wins over NE and PHI)
Cleveland 5-11(Garcia will be riding the bench in pain or in a hostpital after week 9)

Later

[Mikey6866]

Muscle

Go put your tight ass zebra shirt back on and head down pegasus where u belong.

[Viz-Burgh]

Yeah, Mikey!! Zebra shirt!! That was Funny....the first time. :rolleyes:

BTW - Do you really think the fans at this board have cornered the market on delusion? You think you're in a better position at QB than Baltimore is? Kyle Boller has at least taken snaps at the NFL level and has played against this competition. Palmer will be BETTER than Kitna was last year??? Palmer parlayed one good season at USC into a number one pick because of a weak draft class and because Cincy couldn't unload the #1 pick. He will struggle early and often. If Lewis sticks it out with him, you'll be looking at a 5-6 win season IF your defense improves from last year. And Rudi Johnson still has to prove he can be the man when all the pressure is on him - which it is now.

[Canada]

I don't think that Cincinnati is gonna sneak up on anybody this year. The story is out. They have a good thing going there but it might take time especially with a Rookie at QB.

[Mikey6866]

5-6 wins???

Boller better than Palmer?? Time will tell but I disagree. I do like both of them as prospects though. I know Palmer will be the better of the two but I think Boller could have a very good career as well.

Palmer was a 4 year starter at a Major school and they happened to change O-coordinaters Palmers 1st 3 years there. He was learning a new system every single year with sub par WR's and O-line until Pete Carrol, Norm Chow, Mike Williams and other big time recuits started coming to USC, and USC is now turing into a powerhouse once again. Palmer has superior accuracy and footwork, and mechanics when compared to Boller. Arm strength is about the same they both have strong arms. Boller sure did light it up when he played last year. :confused: He had a career completion percentage and Cal under 52%. He never passed above 53% while in college, and was also a "1 year wonder"... Under Jeff Tedford whom I might add groomed Akili Smith to the 3rd pick of the draft after 1 good senior season.

About 5-6 wins.......thats sounds about right..... for the Steelers or Browns. The North is a 2 team race. You people are just gonna have to adapt. The Ravens and Bengals are both young and will be on the rise for years to come, they will own this divison for at least the next couple of years. Get used to it, because the denial is making you people delusional.

[LostCause2003]

Delusion? You say we have delusion for one year, and then for the enxt few years of none of us even knowing?

What about the 15 years of delusion Cincinatti fans have been in until last year, when they thought there team was actually 'back in it'?

I don't like to come back in this context, but what are you on? You have a team in Cincy that was working a lot better than previous years, almost making it into the playoffs and winning the division(it woulda been close), but now the bengals and the ravens are the dominant teams?

Here is a delusion....last year, cincy and the steelas were 3-3 against div teams. The ravens were 4-2. Against the conference? Balt 7-5, Cincy 6-6 and the steelers were 5-7. Looks pretty close to me.

Baltimore was on a 2 game win streak, while cincy was losing two. And don't get mad and defensive and say 'it was all Kitna's fault', because that is another delusion. And who did Cincy lose to in the final game of the year? Cleveland.

So, while you are under the delusions of grandeur, and believe how dominant your team is, realize that this is the worst division in the NFL. Our records for getting into the playoffs are horrible, and a 9-7 team can go, is sad. When your team gets to win the division, then you have room to talk. Until then, you were just like the steelers and the borwnies last year, sitting at home in later december, with your team's players across the state doing the same, watching another team's fans cheer.

Also, I wanted to comment on the bengals last year. First, kudos to Charles Johnson and Warrick finally getting some respect for receivers, and from the fans. These two put out a nice combo, which was shaky at times, but definitely worked. Also, Rudi Johnson and Kitna, with both huge surprises. It was nice to see the bengals not finish last, and almost make the playoffs.

That being said, I have respect for every other bengal's fan, except for mikey there. He is a horse's ass, without the horse.

Later

[Viz-Burgh]

5-6 wins???

Boller better than Palmer?? Time will tell but I disagree. I do like both of them as prospects though. I know Palmer will be the better of the two but I think Boller could have a very good career as well.

Palmer was a 4 year starter at a Major school and they happened to change O-coordinaters Palmers 1st 3 years there. He was learning a new system every single year with sub par WR's and O-line until Pete Carrol, Norm Chow, Mike Williams and other big time recuits started coming to USC, and USC is now turing into a powerhouse once again. Palmer has superior accuracy and footwork, and mechanics when compared to Boller. Arm strength is about the same they both have strong arms. Boller sure did light it up when he played last year. :confused: He had a career completion percentage and Cal under 52%. He never passed above 53% while in college, and was also a "1 year wonder"... Under Jeff Tedford whom I might add groomed Akili Smith to the 3rd pick of the draft after 1 good senior season.

OF COURSE Boller didn't light it up last year. Why?? BECAUSE HE WAS A ROOKIE QB!!!!!!!! Which is what Palmer will be this year. For you to think that he will be better than Kitna is seriously getting into crack-pipe territory. I didn't know that Boller was also a "1 year wonder". I take back what I said about Boller being better than Palmer - they're both gonna bust, equally. Feel better now?

BTW - How did USC fare last year after losing the wonderboy Palmer? They could hardly compete without him, could they? :rolleyes:

[AZSTEELER]

The playing three different systems thing is bunk. That excuse doesn't fly to Steelers fans who heard for three years that Kordell never had the same coordinator. When in reality, he was stupid and Chan Gailey's system was basic.

I think Viz-Birgh's last statement is the biggest indictment of all in regards to Palmer. A red-shirt freshmen came in and had a BETTER year than Palmer. They had the exact same skill players and the kid was better. It was the kid's first year playing in the system.

Like noted before, very few QB's do well in their first year. Culpepper was mentioned as the exception. One could argue that he was a better prospect out of college and let's face it, he's special. Palmer doesn't have the athletic ability to move like Culpepper and Cincy doesn't have a comprable O-line to those Minnesota teams. Couple that with legitimate questions about Rudi Johnson, and you have a recipe for disaster. I like what Rudi Johnson did last year, but suddenly being the man makes it tough. Ask Mike Anderson.

While I readily admit I was wrong about the Bengals last year, I think Marvin Lewis got all he could out of this team. They just don't have much talent on defense. With another good year they might be able to lure some big time defensive free agents, but they're still at least one year away from the playoffs.

By the way mikey, the Steelers aren't exactly going for the AARP group discount. Tommy, the Bus, Kimo, Hartings and Scott are our only guys at the tail end of their careers.

[Mikey6866]

do you people have brains???.......yeah last year at this time everybody on this board was calling me "delusional" because I would say the Bengals are a better team than the Steelers. 8-8.....6-10 ....you decide. Divison record???lets go with overall record. I dont care if the Bengals went 0-6 in the divison this year and went 10-6 overall and won the division. Whats does the divison record mean unless were talking playoff tiebreakers???? Also WHEN DID I SAY THE BENGALS WERE DOMINANT??......i didnt say they were dominant.......I said (read this closely so maybe you'll understand this time) THE BENGALS AND RAVENS WILL DOMINATE THIS DIVISION FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS. Not because they are dominant teams but because the Browns and Steelers are going to be garbage.

Marvin Lewis himself has stated several times this year that the reason Plamer is starting because he has picked up the offense well and is BETTER than Jon Kitna as of TODAY. Not Potential.......but better right now with the potential to be great. Kitna has one average year and everybody outside of the organization acts like he is Joe Montana....needless to say these are all the same people as last year telling me how bad Kitna sucked.

Comparing Kodell and Palmers experiences are apples and oranges. Kordell was already a mature adult with NFL experience. Palmer had three different coordinators from the ages of 18-20. Thats like coming straight out of high school and every year youve got to learn a new system and get your mechanics tweaked by a new coach coming straight out of high school playing major college football.

Very Few QB's sucseed early.......because they are all drafted high by teams wih no OL, and no WR's and tons of holes. People that sucseeded 1st years all had good supporting casts. Brady, Pennington, Culpepper....there is more thats just 3 recent ones off the top of my head. They all had good supporting casts and thats why they sucseeded. Palmer is one of those guys that has a good supporting casts.

ABout USC........how much more rediculous can you get???....I said the reason Palmer didnt stand out there till his senior year is that they just started getting big time recuits back. Now USC is a powerhouse, and the guy sucseeding him Matt Lienart is going to be a top 5 pick himself. USC has so much talent now, and will be getting big time recruits year in and year out again. Palmers early years they had been down for a while and were not getting the big time recruits they are getting now.

[Muscle]

do you people have brains???.

Do you have a life? This is the Steelers forum. Is the Bungles forum overrun by Steeler fans who claim to be an expert on them?

......yeah last year at this time everybody on this board was calling me "delusional" because I would say the Bengals are a better team than the Steelers 8-8.....6-10 ....you decide.

Exactly LAST YEAR. All Steeler fans would love to forget about our season last year. There is no debate about the fact the Steelers were way below their normal record. Geez dude, how hard up are you to prove a point? Your team has ONE freaking season marginally better that ours(you weren't even in the playoffs for crissakes) in like 15 years and you get all worked up and in a lather about it? Steeler fans had every right to believe in their team. This was not some blind allegience like you have with yours. The Steelers were only 2 years removed from the AFC Championship game and had just gotten beaten in the 2nd round of the playoffs in a close game decided on a mulligan field goal. So, Steeler fans had every right to feel optimistic. You came in blowing hot air about how great your team was. You had a rookie head coach, a journeyman QB, and had just lost your best LB to free agency.
You were delusional, but you happened to get lucky with your prediction. There was no way to KNOW the Steelers OL would be decimated by injuries. There was no way to KNOW that Amos Zereoue would be a bust based on his previous performances that suggested otherwise.
There was no way to KNOW that Jon Kitna would have a career year.
There was no way to KNOW that Marvin Lewis would suddenly instill a winning attitude and be somewhat successful in his first year.

YOU DIDN'T KNOW SQUAT! You got a lucky guess in, BIG DEAL

How many people correctly guessed the Panthers would represent the NFC in the Super Bowl last year? For the ones that did, I'm sure they must be super geniuses right? :rolleyes:


Divison record???lets go with overall record. I dont care if the Bengals went 0-6 in the divison this year and went 10-6 overall and won the division. Whats does the divison record mean unless were talking playoff tiebreakers???? Also WHEN DID I SAY THE BENGALS WERE DOMINANT??......i didnt say they were dominant.......I said (read this closely so maybe you'll understand this time) THE BENGALS AND RAVENS WILL DOMINATE THIS DIVISION FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS. Not because they are dominant teams but because the Browns and Steelers are going to be garbage.

Who can remember exactly what you said a year ago? I can't because I tried to forget you as soon as you scurried away. You never said "dominant"? If you say so, and so what! You came in here predicting how great the Bungles were, compared to the lowly Steelers. You acted like your team was the stuff of Legends. Are you shocked that the fans of team that has won 4 Super Bowl titles would take offense from the fan/troll of team that has never even won ONE Super Bowl and has been HORRIBLE for not just years, but DECADES, but has the audacity to trash our team while boasting his?

Marvin Lewis himself has stated several times this year that the reason Plamer is starting because he has picked up the offense well and is BETTER than Jon Kitna as of TODAY. Not Potential.......but better right now with the potential to be great. Kitna has one average year and everybody outside of the organization acts like he is Joe Montana....needless to say these are all the same people as last year telling me how bad Kitna sucked.

Face it Kitna did suck. He had a career year and probably will never get back to that level again. Marvin Lewis realizes this and that is why Palmer is starting, not because Palmer is a playbook wonderkind. We'll see how good Palmer is. He had only one good year at USC, and now he's the next Montana? Too funny dude. Yeah, USC really sucked without Palmer, that Leinart guy couldn't do anything with them this past year :rolleyes:


Comparing Kodell and Palmers experiences are apples and oranges. Kordell was already a mature adult with NFL experience. Palmer had three different coordinators from the ages of 18-20. Thats like coming straight out of high school and every year youve got to learn a new system and get your mechanics tweaked by a new coach coming straight out of high school playing major college football.

You sound very prepared to start making Palmer excuses already. Is there a Spin Doctor in the house?

Very Few QB's sucseed early.......because they are all drafted high by teams wih no OL, and no WR's and tons of holes. People that sucseeded 1st years all had good supporting casts. Brady, Pennington, Culpepper....there is more thats just 3 recent ones off the top of my head. They all had good supporting casts and thats why they sucseeded. Palmer is one of those guys that has a good supporting casts.

Oh, here he is, thank you Spin Doctor, sir.

ABout USC........how much more rediculous can you get???....I said the reason Palmer didnt stand out there till his senior year is that they just started getting big time recuits back. Now USC is a powerhouse, and the guy sucseeding him Matt Lienart is going to be a top 5 pick himself. USC has so much talent now, and will be getting big time recruits year in and year out again. Palmers early years they had been down for a while and were not getting the big time recruits they are getting now.

The only thing ridiculous is you trying to deny, the obvious corrolation between the USC QBs. I bet that Akili Smith guys set your world on fire when you guys drafted him too, eh? Palmer has not proven a thing yet in the NFL, he marginally proved himself at the college level. Could Palmer be the next great young QB? Sure. Could he be a colossal flop? Absolutely. If you guess right again and he turns out to be good, I'll give you a gold star, no wait make that a silver star. How hard is it to predict that a player on your favorite team will be good? EVERY ONE DOES THAT!



Troll along, there's nothing else to see here!

[Mikey6866]

Muscle are your tired of being WRONG yet??

What happened last year were not just guesses.......they were very educated guesses based on the talent level and potential of the 2 teams. Ever since I started posting on this board I dont think you have "guessed" right once. You are always wrong. I would "guess" this is because you have your steel curtain blinders on and havent looked over the current roster in quite some time. The STEELERS are rebuilding.....thats why they drafted Big Ben.

What did I spin....that Palmer had a rough go early in his college career but overcame it to win the heisman and become the best player in the Draft when he came out. Or was it that I said he has a great supporting cast in Cincinnati and he will sucseed??? What is there to spin??

Also lets get something straight, I didnt come in here last year bashing anybody.......I came in here saying dont forget about the Bengals they are going to be much improved. Only to get bashed by everybody on this board telling me how "stupid" I was and that they were 2-14 last year and nothing compared to the mighty Steelers. Turns out I was right. Hows the crow taste??? Yummy ;) Get ready for some more

[Muscle]

Muscle are your tired of being WRONG yet??

No, I'm just getting started :rolleyes:

What happened last year were not just guesses.......they were very educated guesses based on the talent level and potential of the 2 teams. Ever since I started posting on this board I dont think you have "guessed" right once. You are always wrong. I would "guess" this is because you have your steel curtain blinders on and havent looked over the current roster in quite some time. The STEELERS are rebuilding.....thats why they drafted Big Ben.

Educated guesses? Anyone who makes ANY predictions about their own team is a homer. YOU ARE JUST A BIGTIME HOMER, that got LUCKY, repeat after me L-U-C-K-Y. No one in their right minds(that excludes you) had tabbed Cincy to do anything last year. You're a fan of the Bungles and you boasted about their future successes. Whooptie frickin doooo! Every fan does that every year. Wow, the Bungles were actually 8-8 and still not in the playoffs, WHOA, no wonder you're excited :eek:

When you guys actually have a winning record OR make the playoffs, OR have a playoff bye, OR homefield advantage, OR WIN A PLAYOFF game come back and talk JUNIOR.

Til then, I'm done feeding the trolls!


Don't go away mad, JUST GO AWAY!

[Shooters]

here it is again. LOL

12-4........like I have said all along ......Muscle you know absolutely nothing about football. Everybody on the Steelers could have Career years and they would not be 12-4. :confused:

The Bengals will win the division. Get used to it now so it doesnt hurt so bad later. You can consider Carson a question mark all your want. He will still be better than Kitna was last year. Yes thats right I said better than Kitna was last year. Kitna had a solid year but not spectatular like every body seems to think. He still made alot of stupid mistakes. He played really well in the wins that we got but he also played poorly in most of the losses. He was the main reason for the losses at Oakland and Arizona. Must have a better run D this year to take it to the next level. 9-7

Ravens: Jamal Lewis trial could get in the way. Could also be suspended by the league for the substance abuse policy while trial is going on. Mcalister is reportedly holding out. Even bigger ? at QB than the Bengals. If they lose Jamal for any length they will be struggling. 8-8

Steelers: As I predicted last year dead on may I add. Secondary is still a big question mark. Teams will be torching them all year long again. OL still has some issues, and contrary to most Steeler fans Duece is NOT a blue chip RB. He was a 3rd stringer splitting time in Philly for the last couple of years. Great trio of WR's but Hines and Plax both having contract issues, but I dont think they will let that effect them. Tommy is still Tommy "Turnover Tommy". 7-9

Cleveland: The mistake by the lake. Lee Suggs is promising. O-Line will hinder his progress. Garcia is in the 1st year of the sytem and is primarily a dump off type of QB. Dont think the offense will be that explosive. Defense gave up about 600 yards in 2 games to Jamal Lewis.......pathetic. Probably the only team in the league last year that was worse than the Bengals at stopping the run. 5-11

If Mikey posts in a thread, does anyone really care? I don't.

[Shooters]

Baltimore - Very good defense. Should win them a couple games alone. Offense is still a question mark. Receivers aren't that good. Heap is the only player that is consistently good. Jam Lewis is a very tough runner. However, without a good passing game, he will have a tougher time ths year.

Cincinnati - As always, lots of young talent. Starting a rookie at QB could be a problem. However, I've heard that he's better at throwing the deep ball, giving Chad Johnson many more opportunities to torch defenses.

Cleveland - New QB and TE. Still, they have nobody of Terrell Owens calabre at WR. RBBC with Suggs and Green aren't very scary. Did not change much of a team that was horrible on defense.

Pittsburgh - So far, from what I've seen, they look to have a swagger to them in camp. Concerned about Proter and his groin and Haggins hand. Hopefully Zo Jackson can become a Greg Lloyd type and keep Haggins on the bench. I like the DBs and think Polamalu will continue his solid play from the end of last year. Hope's an upgrade over Alexander.

I'd say between 8-8 and 12-4. Leaning more toward at least a 10-6 record.

Ravens 10-6
Steelers 10-6
Bengals 8-8
Browns 6-10

[AZSTEELER]

The Steelers are rebuilding, that's why they drafted Big Ben? Were the Vikes rebuilding when they drafted Culpepper? The Steelers are such a solid franchise that they could draft the BPA. You have a skewed view of drafting since the bungles are usually in the top five. I guess I don't understand your logic.

And yes, lets do get something straight. You didn't come in here last year and start a friendly thread like some raven of browns fans have. You came in and started flapping your gums that we were all stupid and that Cincy was going to kick our ass. You were right for the most part and kept the cocky attitude. Then you didn't show your face for months after cleveland kicked your ass in the last game. And I owed you $50 bucks! You do make occasional good points but often get snapped at when you have a complete lack of respect for where you are.

We will rarely agree on anything with you and I think most of us hope you go on a canoeing trip to Georgia and never come back in this forum again. Yeah, it sucks that you were right and we were wrong last year, but you go about things all the wrong way. While many in here acknowledge that Cincy played well, you refuse to admit that our line was decimated with injuries. We looked like a powerhouse after week one and then the hits just kept on coming. Cincy played like crap, then did well and went back to crap. Apparently that means a bright future for your boys.

We'll always agree to disagree, but don't skew the fact that you were a complete a-hole when you were first spotted when someone turned on the lights one day in here.