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ducky
06-22-2009, 01:42 PM
On the same day that I made Punto's prediction, he hurts himself....by diving into 1st.

Classic Poopto.

I should have known better.

PsychoViking
06-22-2009, 02:01 PM
You can't go 3-3 in IL play at home, against one terrible team and another mediocre one.

Until Billy Smith realizes that you can't win with trash all over the bullpen (Henn, Ayala, etc) and turrible players like Punto playing everyday this team isn't going anywhere. Releasing Breslow looks like another really bad move considering Henn is even worse and Breslow has been solid in Oakland.

Gomez is unwatchable. He needs to go down when Span comes back but they'll never send him down.

PsychoViking
06-22-2009, 02:10 PM
Sounds like someone will be cut loose soon. Hopefully Ayala.

Bullpen help?

At Class AAA Rochester, Bobby Keppel has a contract clause that allows the righthander to become a free agent if he is not placed on the major league roster by July 1.

There are indications that the Twins plan to promote Keppel soon. The 27-year-old is 3-3 with a 2.43 ERA for Rochester in 23 appearances, including three starts.

ducky
06-22-2009, 03:02 PM
We simply don't have the pitching to be a really good team. Plain and simple.

The only reason we are now and probably still will be in contention come Sept is how awful this division is right now. Honestly at this point I am not sure if the division winner will win more than 85-88 games.

...and just like earlier in the decade when we were winning the division, the reward for winning it will in all liklihood be a quick 1st round exit in the playoffs.

If I were Smith and I realized that I had major job security (that's the Twins way), I would actually become sellers around the trade deadline and start making a plan for next season.

With as much talent as this team has (and this is a REALLY talented team), we won't be a top team IMO unless they trade or sign for an ace starting pitcher to lead this staff (good luck with that) and the Twins should do what they need to to acquire whatever they need to get a guy like that.

PsychoViking
06-22-2009, 03:18 PM
Who are you going to sell, though?

Cuddyer - Could be worth something, salary could be a question.
Young - Not worth squat at this point.
Harris - Could be worth something, not sure you'll get a great deal for him, and considering our extremely poor IF depth this would be a tough trade.
Crede - Not sure how much he is worth when hitting .230.
Redmond - nothing.
Perkins/Liriano - Not sure how much either is worth. Probably not enough to trade them.
Henn/Ayala/Crain - nothing.
Dickey - ? Who knows, but the Twins won't give him a bigger role, which says a lot. He should be the 7th inning guy when Guerrier isn't available.

ducky
06-22-2009, 04:50 PM
Who are you going to sell, though?

Cuddyer - Could be worth something, salary could be a question.
Young - Not worth squat at this point.
Harris - Could be worth something, not sure you'll get a great deal for him, and considering our extremely poor IF depth this would be a tough trade.
Crede - Not sure how much he is worth when hitting .230.
Redmond - nothing.
Perkins/Liriano - Not sure how much either is worth. Probably not enough to trade them.
Henn/Ayala/Crain - nothing.
Dickey - ? Who knows, but the Twins won't give him a bigger role, which says a lot. He should be the 7th inning guy when Guerrier isn't available.

You under-estimate our relievers by quite a bit.

Dickey for instance has a REALLY good shot of being a type A FA at the end of the year (1st round and comp pick back as compensation) because of the innings he will work.

For as bad as the Twins relievers have been, they are still much better than we think.

The Twins relievers for instance:
A min of 20 innings pitched this season as a reliever....
Dickey is 12th in the AL in ERA
Guerrier is 25th in the AL in ERA

Hell Dickey or Guerrier might be a couple of best relievers on the trade market if we made them available.

Some of the other guys you list, you would be surprised about too. I'm sure there is still quite a few teams out there that would be willing to give Young a shot to develop while he is price controlled through his arbitration years.

Crede is going to be a type B FA this offseason and will net us (or whoever trades for him) a sandwich pick so there is his value.

Perkins or Liriano could get us some great stuff too (cheap left handed starters...please).

If I were the Twins I would pray I could get Crain right before the trade deadline (and remember that we can trade him anytime now until sept because we can do the waiver trade still) and get whatever we can for him. Crede I would shop but I doubt anyone gives us what we need back for him. I would also see what both Kubel and Cuddyer could get us too.

I would also wait until the end of July and put one of our starters on the market (still not sure which one) because like the relievers they might be some of the the best options on the market and we might get quite a big score back in return for one of them in a similar way that Oakland got quite a bit for Blanton last year.

Like I said....I believe this team NEEDS an ace and I would do whatever I could to try and get the assets to get an ace and that includes trading away anyone that doesn't have an M starting their last name as long as I like what is coming back.

PsychoViking
06-22-2009, 05:01 PM
It is very unlikely that they trade a guy like Guerrier. I doubt Dickey is a type A, but if he is you wouldn't trade him unless you got more than he is realistically worth.

The rest is trash. Liriano may have some value as a bullpen guy but anyone with a 6 ERA isn't going to fetch a whole lot. Perkins, eh, we'll see how he does the rest of the way.

No way Kubel is traded. I don't really see Cuddyer getting traded, either, with the man-crush Gardy has on him.

PsychoViking
06-22-2009, 05:12 PM
Keppel was called up. Article didn't state who was shipped out, hopefully Ayala-ways-get-lit-up.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/48782142.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUo8cyaiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:a ULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr

VikingFan2k2
06-22-2009, 06:13 PM
This Keppel guy seems very pedestrian, Small sample sizes but 11.25 ERA last year and 5.50 the year before.

I as much as anyone want Ayala gone, but this guy doesn't seem like he's any kind of an answer.

The worst part about this is that Henn will probably go instead of Ayala.

ducky
06-22-2009, 06:30 PM
Its going to be a position player that goes down (Pridie) in all liklihood and we will go back to carrying 12 pitchers.

PsychoViking
06-22-2009, 06:32 PM
It'll probably be Morales, then Pridie goes down when Span is activated. Henn won't go yet because we don't have any other lefties, considering they want to use Mijares in the setup role.

I don't know how Ayala stays on this team. I'd rather have Breslow over him.

PsychoViking
06-22-2009, 07:31 PM
Ayala - gone. Good riddance.

ducky
06-22-2009, 07:48 PM
The amount of money the Twins have pissed away on crappy players like Ayala is ****ing ridiculous.

They could have cut Ayala in the 1st 16 games of the season and saved themselves a $1 million.

For the last 2 and a half months of crappy relief work, the Twins will have payed Ayala $1.3 million.

PurplePride84
06-22-2009, 08:31 PM
The amount of money the Twins have pissed away on crappy players like Ayala is ****ing ridiculous.


Oh, come on. Guys like Jose Offerman, Tony Batista, Ruben Sierra, Jeff Cirillo, Ramon Ortiz, Sidney Ponson, Mike Lamb, Craig Monroe and Livan Hernandez all made crucial contributions to the Twins...bleh, thats as far as I can take that shtick. Those are the guys who, like Ayala, couldn't make it through one season with the Twins.

The guys who did stick around a bit longer? Henry Blanco, Terry Mulholland, Juan Castro, Jason Tyner, Mike Redmond, Rondell White, and Dennys Reyes. Crede is really the first free agent we've signed with any real hope of being semi-productive. And even he had huge question marks.

Oh, and if Dickey is a Type A Free Agent, he's probably done. Who wants to give up a first round pick for R.A. Dickey?

ducky
06-22-2009, 08:42 PM
Oh, and if Dickey is a Type A Free Agent, he's probably done. Who wants to give up a first round pick for R.A. Dickey?

With the way he is pitching now if I were a GM I would love to have a guy like that in my pen. A reliever who can pitch everyday and multiple innings at a time and still sport an ERA south of 3.5. Sign me up.

If used right, he can not only be a competant reliever for you but he can single handedly save your power arms in the bullpen from over use. By the end of the season he seriously could be looking at a contract that pays him about $3 million a year and have plenty of suitors on his tail.

The good thing about possibly qualifying as a type A guy is that it means that he might not have as many teams going after him which means the Twins will have a good chance of resigning to a reasonable deal.

VikingFan2k2
06-23-2009, 01:36 AM
I'm surprised that Belly Smith actually gave up on Ayala. Good move, 2 months too late on a signing that shouldn't have been made in the first place.

We have to get our road woes turned around immediately, 3-3 at home is unacceptable. It's time to sweep the Brew Crew like we did last month.

PsychoViking
06-24-2009, 01:41 AM
Speaking of cutting bait, its time to demote Liriano and promote Swarzak. Maybe Liriano will finish this outing off well but 3 early runs against is not a good sign. Meanwhile, Swarzak is tearing it up at AAA. 7-3 Twins right now, though.

PurplePride84
06-24-2009, 01:59 AM
Hilarious. Ayala asked for a trade because he wasn't pitching the 8th. Some of Gardy's comments-


"He wanted an eighth-inning role. That's why he signed over here," Gardenhire said. "But he wasn't pitching well enough to be an eighth-inning guy. So there you have it. His thoughts were that if we gave him the ball in that eighth inning, he would be able to do the job more. My thoughts are, if you are not getting them out, you are not going to pitch in the eighth inning. We are trying to win."

"I'm talking about winning this year and he's talking about if he doesn't get in the right situations here, he's worried about his contract for next year," Gardenhire said. "You lose me right there. I don't deal with that. We're talking about winning now. So we were talking about different things.

"That's why he's out the door and another guy is in here to pitch. It's not that [Ayala] is a bad guy. His theories are a little different than ours."

PsychoViking
06-24-2009, 03:05 AM
It has been a long time since I've heard something so stupid. Well, since Mike Florio's last Favre-related post, anyway.

ducky
06-24-2009, 04:54 AM
That's ridicuous by Ayala. He was terrible since the first moment he stepped on the mound and he wanted to be handed the 8th inning job on a new team. :rolleyes:

I bet you Gardie KNEW that saying what he did would cost Ayala money.

This team really looks primed to go on an offensive tear. While the M & M boys have been slowing down a bit, the rest of the line-up looks ready to finally start playing like major league ball players. If Span comes back and he continues to play like he did before he went on the DL, we could finally have all hands on deck (both physically and mentally) and start swinging the bats well and go on a run.

VikingFan2k2
06-24-2009, 07:22 AM
Apparantly Ayala said this 3 weeks ago, my question is, why wasn't he released the next day and not 3 weeks later?

I would love to see a situation like last year if he hits the waiver wire and someone is dumb enough to claim him like Colorado did with Livan last year.

At any rate, an ugly, ugly win tonight, got lucky with an error on a double play ball, Cuddyer strikes out on a wild pitch and Crede hits a 3 run double the next AB.

Liriano pitched horribly and still gets the win, he never faced less than 5 guys in any of his 5 ugly innings of work.

Mauer 0 for 5, you won't see that too often, now he's below the .400 mark for the first time all season. We'd best trade the bum now! ;)

Fandango
06-24-2009, 01:32 PM
Bringing up Keppel over Slama and Delaney is a page right out of the Terry Ryan playbook. Keppel has proven himself to be nothing more than an average minor league pitcher and will doubtlessly get rocked in the majors. However, the Twins are so careful in managing their 40 man roster and in using too many options of young players, that more qualified pitchers like Slama and Delaney will stay in the minors while worse pitchers are brought up to the big leagues.

PsychoViking
06-24-2009, 02:23 PM
Slama may not be ready yet, he has been hit around a little at AA but has recovered lately.

Alex Burnett is another interesting guy at AA. Delaney just got rocked again at AAA last night.

http://firstinning.com/players/Alex-Burnett-a/

Really, Liriano should go to the bullpen and Swarzak should be starting.

PurplePride84
06-24-2009, 03:24 PM
Well, the Pirates are interested in Ayala, enough to trade something for him. Wow.

VikingFan2k2
06-25-2009, 01:05 AM
Well, the Pirates are interested in Ayala, enough to trade something for him. Wow.

That's why they're the Pirates. They're out of their minds if they are thinking that he won't fall to them on the waiver wire.

PsychoViking
06-25-2009, 02:39 AM
Way to choke away a game tonight.

I didn't understand why Gardy would be content to let Blackburn bat in the 8th. Sure, he was pitching well, but with a man on in NL ball, I think you need to pinch hit and let Guerrier/Mijares do their jobs. I just don't think you can be content to give up a chance at a gapper scoring a run.

Some real stupid plays in the field didn't help, either.

I see that Punto's stupid asshat self is going back to MN with his pu$$y-ass sore ribs. Someone should punch him in the ribs just to break some and tell him that if he ever dives into 1st again he'll get more than just broken ribs. Moron.

VikingFan2k2
06-25-2009, 03:10 AM
Way to choke away a game tonight.

I didn't understand why Gardy would be content to let Blackburn bat in the 8th. Sure, he was pitching well, but with a man on in NL ball, I think you need to pinch hit and let Guerrier/Mijares do their jobs. I just don't think you can be content to give up a chance at a gapper scoring a run.

Some real stupid plays in the field didn't help, either.

I see that Punto's stupid asshat self is going back to MN with his pu$$y-ass sore ribs. Someone should punch him in the ribs just to break some and tell him that if he ever dives into 1st again he'll get more than just broken ribs. Moron.

I can't put this one on Gardy, Blackburn was rolling and his pitch count was good. Besides, who do you have to pinch hit there that could have driven Tolbert in.

Blackie screwed himself with that terrible error. It is really a kick in the nuts, the 2nd worst loss of the season after Nathan's blown save in New York.

The exclamaition point put on by the fact that the Cubs suck and lose to the Tigers 5-3...

We have some jerk tomorrow making his first major league start at the age of 30, we had better win that one. We should be in position for the sweep, but let's just settle for the series win...

ducky
06-25-2009, 07:18 AM
I would have pinch hit there for Blackburn as well mostly because he shouldn't have been pitching the eigth anyway. Even in an American League game I would have pulled him. He just wasn't pitching that well to begin with and was getting beat around pretty good but was lucky enough to have a lot of line drives hit at people. Already had Guerrier completly warmed up...might as well have stuck him out there.

The M & M boys have hit the skids a bit here lately.

VikingFan2k2
06-25-2009, 08:12 AM
I would have pinch hit there for Blackburn as well mostly because he shouldn't have been pitching the eigth anyway. Even in an American League game I would have pulled him. He just wasn't pitching that well to begin with and was getting beat around pretty good but was lucky enough to have a lot of line drives hit at people. Already had Guerrier completly warmed up...might as well have stuck him out there.

The M & M boys have hit the skids a bit here lately.

I'm sorry, but this sounds like the ultimate second guessing. The guy is rolling, his pitch count is in good shape, and the Brewers looked pretty inept offensively.

I will always be the first in line to rip Gardenhire, but this isn't the spot to do it, the guy was in the 80's in his pitch count, he faulked up and made a stupid and terrible throw that sailed into left field and cost us the game. I like Blackie a lot, He has been our best starter, but there is no excuse for that.

I'll give him a mulligan, but it really sucks that that mulligan cost us the game.

ducky
06-25-2009, 01:32 PM
It wasn't second guessing because I was pissed when they sent him to the plate.

In a one run game you don't keep a pitcher who is pitching like Blackburn was in the game when his spot comes up with a guy on. Its not like he was going to be pitching a complete game. Nathan was a lock to work the ninth and Guerrier's workload right now was fine and like I said they already had gotten him completely loose in the bullpen. Why did they get him warmed up??? Because Blackburn wasn't pitching that well.

He wasn't "cruising" along. He got shelled most of the day. He got EXTREMELY lucky yesterday. The Brewers hit a ton of balls hard including multiple shots that travelled 390 ft in the air....it just happened that those shots were hit to dead centerfield instead of over a left or right field fence. For Christ sake even Looper the pitcher had an RBI and made a loud out later in the game.

The mistake wasn't Blackie throwing a ball into left field...the mistake was trying to squeeze another inning out a of pitcher who just didn't have it all day long because they are trying to protect an undermanned bullpen.

Fandango
06-25-2009, 01:35 PM
NL ball operates a bit differently than AL ball. If we would have been playing in the Metrodome, I would have kept Blackburn in there. But since he had to bat, and it was only a one run game, I think the smart play was to pull him for a pinch hitter, because Blackburn was completely clueless at the plate which of course it not surprising.

PsychoViking
06-25-2009, 01:53 PM
I would have pinch hit there for Blackburn as well mostly because he shouldn't have been pitching the eigth anyway. Even in an American League game I would have pulled him. He just wasn't pitching that well to begin with and was getting beat around pretty good but was lucky enough to have a lot of line drives hit at people. Already had Guerrier completly warmed up...might as well have stuck him out there.

The M & M boys have hit the skids a bit here lately.

No reason to pull him in an AL game, but not pulling him in an NL game was not just second guessing, it was stupid. Obviously the error hurt but Gardy is just way too content to SETTLE for a lot of things, in this case it was a 1 run lead.

I don't think Blackburn was all that great last night, either. He got outs, but I don't even recall him throwing a breaking ball for a strike. It was strictly sinker/slider. I believe quite a few of the outs were fly ball outs, which is a good indicator that he didn't have his best stuff.

Its not 100% Gardy's fault, but it was a silly decision in an NL park.

PsychoViking
06-25-2009, 05:37 PM
God I hate how this team is run. Cuddyer of all people might end up playing second base because we are so f-ing in love with turds like Punto/Tolbert that can't possibly just DL them and call a position player up. This is just stupid. You KNOW Punto is just going to dive into 1st the day he gets back into the lineup and crack a rib again.

Can someone please manage the moron manager? Just DL these guys and bring Tolleson up.

--------

Update: Manager Ron Gardenhire said he checked with Joe Mauer and Joe Crede this morning and both gave him the thumbs up to keep them in the lineup for today’s series finale.

Mauer likely will get a break on Saturday afternoon in St. Louis.

Nick Punto has an afternoon appointment, to get his ribs checked, and Gardenhire said Punto or a replacement will be joining the team in St. Louis on Friday. With Alexi Casilla injured at Class AAA Rochester with a sore groin, one possible replacement is Steve Tolleson, though he has committed three errors in recent days.

Matt Tolbert was banged up turning a double play on Wednesday night. Gardenhire said he would have started Michael Cuddyer at second if Tolbert wouldn’t have been able to play, adding that Cuddyer could get a start at second base this weekend in St. Louis.

VikingFan2k2
06-27-2009, 05:21 AM
Very nice win tonight, Perkins throws 7 strong innings and the offense gets enough to score 3 runs to win it 3-1.

ducky
06-27-2009, 04:37 PM
I know some people don't like it but I absolutely love interleague play.

Nathan vs The Machine with the game on the line in the bottom of the 9th. Sit your ass down Albert.

Hell even when it doesn't work it is entertaining like watching Hoffman pull the string against Morneau to end the game the other day (not to mention making Morales look like what he is....a rookie).

Hell I am even upset that we are missing Carpetner this series just because I want to see him pitch against the Twins.

Without interleague I hardly ever get to see these guys play. In a 162 games season there is time enough to show me some great National league players play against my team. So anyway...there is my rant.

So a couple years ago remember when we were debating on whether or not it is wise to sign Nathan??? A year and a half later and he is showing he should be worth that contract. Guy just continues to evolve and even though he has lost a a little velocity over the years, he still is an absolute lock down closer.

Also in yesterday's game....anyone notice how Gardie this time DID take out the starting pitcher in the 8th but this time in a two run game and he wasn't even forced to do it through the pitcher coming to the plate??? And Perkins was pitching a hell of a lot better than Blackburn, Perkins had actualy thrown LESS pitches than Blackburn had at that point, and also differently Guerrier had been used the day before this time around.

VikingFan2k2
06-27-2009, 11:42 PM
Ugly game today, Pujols uses Slowey as his own personal batting practice pitcher and the Cards win 5-3.

Also, very frustrating that after Wellemeyer that we couldn't touch anyone out of their bullpen.

The rubber match tomorrow is concerning considering Pinero has pitched well this year and Liriano has not.

VikingFan2k2
06-28-2009, 10:06 PM
Very nice win today, Liriano finally looked like he was in a groove for the first time in a long time. He had a tough 5th, but one of those hits was a broken bat double by Ankiel.

The offense did a solid job, Morneau got off the schnide with a 3 run bomb.

Interesting factoid, the first time ever in interleague play that the Twins haven't gotten a hit from a pitcher.

ducky
06-29-2009, 02:00 PM
Good to see Liriano have some success yesterday. He was better with his fastball (still not where it needs to be) for the most part and kept it on the corners later in the AB's but was throwing it over early in the count. I think his future success is going to involve him laying cookies up there on the 1st pitch to get ahead like he was doing yesterday just because he is a pitcher that needs to work ahead in the count so that his slider fully comes into play. Hopefully he is turning a corner and starts to find the rythm he had at the end of last season. Because of his slider, he is still the pitcher with the most upside on our staff.

Nastradamus
06-29-2009, 06:09 PM
I have a feeling Liriano is going to have an absolutely sick second half. he's slowly getting it together, rounding back into form. Once he has the mental part back and he can just start letting loose with his stuff, he should dominate. I hope I'm wrong, but I just have a feeling.

ducky
06-29-2009, 06:55 PM
I have a feeling Liriano is going to have an absolutely sick second half. he's slowly getting it together, rounding back into form. Once he has the mental part back and he can just start letting loose with his stuff, he should dominate. I hope I'm wrong, but I just have a feeling.

He could have a good second half but I highly doubt he dominates. His "stuff" just isn't what it was in 2006 and last years 2nd half performance was a little bit of a mirage as the Twins put him in a spot in the rotation where he missed every single decent hitting team last year (go look at his game log from last year).

I expect him to be better than he has been and I am hoping that he gets to the point where I can call him "good" again....but I highly doubt we ever see him dominate for a couple months span this season (maybe ever).

VikingFan2k2
06-30-2009, 03:51 AM
What a terrible loss tonight, the guy was all over the place and we can't even get a run off of him, Morneau ends up hitting a 2 run bomb that becomes relatively meaningless after a bad double play by Mauer.

This one stings and it stings bad after the White Sox won they are tied with us for 2nd place.

ducky
06-30-2009, 01:31 PM
Eh...this is baseball. Those games are going to happen. I think the heat of St. Loius and a long road trip finally caught up with them. Hopefully they can still win the series.

Span sure has sucked since coming off the DL. Hopefully he regains his form quickly.

VikingFan2k2
07-01-2009, 06:41 AM
Lucky win tonight, DP ball slung into left field by the first baseman, setting up a sac fly by Cuddyer.

I'll take it after watching that crap last night.

Oh and this just in, Joe Nathan is the best closer in Twins history.

ducky
07-01-2009, 05:05 PM
Boy Keppel is looking like a stud so far. I can't believe that Gardie and Anderson had enough confidence in him to have him get 7 outs in a one run ball game....but he did it (much better job than Mijares who was only asked to get two outs and couldn't do it).

Be interesting to see how they continue to use Keppel going forward. The fact that they are having him pitch mutliple innings with 4 days rest in between so far makes me think they are trying to keep him stretched out to be a starter if they need him soon.

PsychoViking
07-01-2009, 07:05 PM
Speaking of Gardy, I'm sooooooooo happy to see Redmond catching today instead of Morales. :rolleyes: Gardy says Redmond is still his backup catcher, but its just a stupid situation. If Morales is going to sit the entire time he is up here, bring someone of worth up. I wouldn't cut Redmond because the guys would probably be upset over that move, but you don't have to be playing the guy while you have a better option, either.

At least Tolleson could replace Tolbert in the 2 hole, which is another brilliant move today.

ducky
07-01-2009, 08:22 PM
Morneau out of game because of injured groin.
Punto out of game because of injured back.
Redmond out of game because of injured wrist.

What the hell is going on out there?!?!?

I really hate days that they don't televise games. (Although I am going to go on a rant soon too about the game not being in HD as well).

PsychoViking
07-01-2009, 08:40 PM
I'm watching on FSRoyals and its in HD!

FSN North sucks. I hate every other game being in SD only.

Regardless, its pretty much a typical turd day game, score 2 runs, get 2 runs from lucky plays, hope for a 3-1 or 4-2 win.

Gardy is a moron for playing Tolbert in the 2 spot but the results will talk that moron into doing it again. He swings at a 3-0 pitch and gets a hit, then a few innings ago he is up with 2 outs and Gomez on 2nd and we are lucky to get a walk out of him to get Mauer to the plate. It is extremely stupid to play a .180 hitter in the 2 hole while Mauer is 3rd. The 'results' today are just plain luck.

ducky
07-01-2009, 08:55 PM
What happened to Morneau???

PsychoViking
07-02-2009, 01:26 AM
I don't know for sure. They removed him during the half inning. Punto probably injured them both on the same play, although that was a BS slide by Guillen. Morneau had to stretch out for the throw that was in the dirt. I believe it was ruled an automatic out at 1st on the double play because he slid into Punto a good 4 feet off the bag and wouldn't have been able to even touch the bag.

Regardless, they need to just put Punto on the DL already. Everyone is sick of that damn idiot and he is the only moron in MLB that routinely slides into 1st. He has re-injured himself twice already. Just call Tolleson up and be done with it.

VikingFan2k2
07-02-2009, 01:27 AM
What happened to Morneau???

Minor groin pull, doesn't sound too serious.

PsychoViking
07-04-2009, 12:57 AM
Slowey sucks. His 88 MPH fastball does nothing, especially as straight as it is. He needs to start throwing his breaking ball a lot more than the 5 times a game that he does now.

PsychoViking
07-04-2009, 01:24 AM
The Twins also signed a 16 year old German kid that is supposed to be pretty good.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=5323

VikingFan2k2
07-04-2009, 08:37 AM
Twins’ Slowey placed on DL with strained wrist

MINNEAPOLIS (AP)—Minnesota Twins right-hander Kevin Slowey(notes) was placed on the 15-day disabled list with a strained wrist following his start against the Detroit Tigers on Friday night.

Slowey, who was trying to become the majors’ first 11-game winner, gave up a season-worst six runs on five hits in three innings in Minnesota’s 11-9 loss in 16 innings.

He’ll be replaced in the rotation by Anthony Swarzak(notes), who was called up from Triple-A Rochester.

Slowey (10-3) will visit a doctor before a further course of action is decided, manager Ron Gardenhire said.

“After he finished, he said it’s flared up again, the thing he had last year, I guess, same spot,” Gardenhire said. “He said it felt like a weighted ball, he couldn’t get anything through it.”

Slowey’s only visit to the disabled list in 2008 was due to a strained right biceps. However, he struggled toward the end of the season and didn’t pitch in the team’s one-game playoff against the Chicago White Sox due to his sore wrist. Pitching coach Rick Anderson said the team didn’t know Slowey was having any trouble with his wrist until he came out of the game Friday.

Slowey has allowed at least three runs in four of his last five starts and lasted only three innings in his last two.

Swarzak (2-2) will be available for Saturday’s game and will pitch out of the bullpen before taking Slowey’s place in the starting rotation.

I don't get this, is this the training staff or coaching staff being so stupid or a player being so soft?

Or is it just excuse making because this is the second time a starting pitcher has come out totally unprepared and gotten destroyed?

Granted in both of those games we game back to a point where we could have won the game (and in last night's case should have won the game) and that may emphasize it more, but still... Either this is the trainer's fault or the coach's fault for not knowing any better.

Although I suppose they could throw it on the player like Gardy and his crew so often do.

Either way, I'm glad to see Swarzak back up, and hopefully he can continue to prove why he should be in the rotation, but I'm still very frustrated.

VikingFan2k2
07-05-2009, 04:06 AM
Nice win, Liriano almost gave it away giving up a 3 run bomb to Maggs.

Morneau goes 4-4 with a HR and 2 RBI and the wierdest combo of Nick Punto driving in Matt Tolbert proves to be the difference in the game and Nathan comes in to nail it down.

PsychoViking
07-05-2009, 09:41 PM
Much needed CG by Blackburn today, almost screwed up by Gomez.

I wish they'd throw the Baker contract extension at him and see if he bites.

tommyboy
07-06-2009, 12:16 AM
The way he goes about his business on the mound, he reminds me a lot of Kevin Tapani from the early to mid '90's. Blackburn has a better sinker, Tapani the better breaking stuff. But both are in total control out there, and really don't get rattled...just my 2 cents.

no one argued it, but I still think I'm right!

congrats to Morneau, Mauer, and Nathan. 3 very deserving all stars.

ducky
07-06-2009, 04:14 PM
Great starts by Liriano and Blackburn coming off that 16 inning disaster. Did what needed to be done to help out the team.

Our starting pitching with the exception of Slowey is really starting to come around the last month and starting to give us what most of us expected when the season started. I'm still don't think the rotation is good enough to make us a legit contender come October but because of the crappy division we play in it might be good enough to get us there.

After watching that Tigers team I just don't see how they stay in the race with us even with our deficiencies as the year wears on. That offense hasn't been that good so far but if you ask me they actually have still over-performed for what they are. They only have a couple players that I would even call above average. And the great thing with them is that they have so depleted their farm system in trading for Cabrera and Shetfield the last few years that they won't be making any big moves before the deadline to improve either. Their starting pitching is better than ours at the top but I think the bottom of their line-up is going to stick out like a sore thumb the rest of the way unless they get one of their hurt pitchers to come back up and surprise.


Looking forward to the Chicago series to see how their team looks now in the middle of summer. Their bats that went cold last year and the beginning of this year seem to have woken back up and their starting pitching, while inconsistent, has been pretty decent so far overall (although we won't see Conteras and I wanted to see him after his rebirth from the minors).

twolvesguy
07-06-2009, 06:09 PM
Slowey sucks. His 88 MPH fastball does nothing, especially as straight as it is. He needs to start throwing his breaking ball a lot more than the 5 times a game that he does now.

You really do crack me up sometimes Psycho. :)

PsychoViking
07-06-2009, 07:04 PM
Slowey is pretty mediocre, even without the injury. Anyone can win 10 games with good run support.........just as Livan.

Regarding Liriano, I'd say his last start was slightly above mediocre. He pitched well right up until he fell apart (again) after being given a lead.

LionFan2k
07-07-2009, 06:16 AM
Just a little FYI.. the Tigers ALWAYS suck at the Metrodome. They do have one of the best home records in baseball, and have more home games after the break then all of the other AL Central teams. It'll be a dog fight til the end between the Tigers and the Twins.. but we only have to go to your place one more time and I think we can easily take you guys at CoPa.

VikingFan2k2
07-07-2009, 09:08 AM
Just a little FYI.. the Tigers ALWAYS suck at the Metrodome. They do have one of the best home records in baseball, and have more home games after the break then all of the other AL Central teams. It'll be a dog fight til the end between the Tigers and the Twins.. but we only have to go to your place one more time and I think we can easily take you guys at CoPa.

Losing at home against the Royals tonight doesn't help matters much LF. ;)

Mike Jacobs for president! :D

Fandango
07-07-2009, 01:24 PM
Regarding Liriano, I'd say his last start was slightly above mediocre. He pitched well right up until he fell apart (again) after being given a lead.


His last two starts have been very solid actually.

Fandango
07-07-2009, 01:26 PM
Much needed CG by Blackburn today, almost screwed up by Gomez.

But he isn't that good of a pitcher....just ask his 'peripherals'. ;)

PsychoViking
07-07-2009, 02:18 PM
His last two starts have been very solid actually.

Not really. Its not good enough to go 6 and give up 3 or 4 when they all come after he routinely melts down in a clutch spot. I don't know, I've just had it with his 10 cent head.

LionFan2k
07-07-2009, 06:33 PM
It's just one game outta 162... the Royals got super lucky to take that one from us and without the implosion of Rodney/Zumaya we would have had that. They will bounce back and win the next two though. It'll be a fight down to the end in the Central.

twolvesguy
07-07-2009, 07:42 PM
His last two starts have been very solid actually.

Fandango..... It's Psycho, unless he pitches consecutive complete game shutouts, Psycho is going to biotch about it. Even then..... he'll probably find something.

PsychoViking
07-07-2009, 08:04 PM
Fandango..... It's Psycho, unless he pitches consecutive complete game shutouts, Psycho is going to biotch about it. Even then..... he'll probably find something.

And you'll gloss everything bad over because its the home team! :)

twolvesguy
07-07-2009, 08:09 PM
And you'll gloss everything bad over because its the home team! :)

Maybe..... maybe not. I try to maintain that it's a long season, there will be ups and down, and most of these players are still kids. Besides, the other team usually has some decent players too and they're trying to win games. Heehhh, sometimes you make a great pitch and the batter still gets a base hit. Just the way things are.

Additionally, I've been extremely critical of Twins players in the past..... or have you forgotten about Frenchy? Same with Viking, Wild and Wolves players.

VikingFan2k2
07-08-2009, 03:58 AM
What a disaster... Baker took a big step back tonight.

Gardy's teams can't play with the Yankees, I don't know if it's something he instills in them or what, but this is getting ridiculous.

tommyboy
07-08-2009, 11:20 PM
the twins need to beat the yankees tonight. we play the yankees and we turn into the bad news bears....i don't get it. enough is enough!

tommyboy
07-08-2009, 11:34 PM
Well, Perkins is sick, and got scratched from tonight's start. Swarzak will be going in his place. Hopefully, Swarzak can do the job.

tommyboy
07-09-2009, 02:14 AM
boy, that was an AWFUL at bat by cuddyer with the bases loaded. just horrible plate discipline. Keppel is looking like a keeper. Throws really good stuff with downward late movement. pretty nasty.

PurplePride84
07-09-2009, 06:02 AM
Thats not the first time Cuddy has done that with the bases loaded this year. I turned to my buddy before the first pitch of the at-bat and said he'd K, and it would be ugly.

Every once in a while even a blind squirrel finds a nut. :D

VikingFan2k2
07-09-2009, 07:09 AM
While I agree that Cuddyer's AB was pathetic, the Twins had a lot of chances and squandered them, Morneau didn't produce, Crede didn't produce, and it was just an all around bad game. Keppel and Mauer were the only bright spots.

Fandango
07-09-2009, 01:10 PM
The Twins are just the Yankees' b****...there is nothing else that can be said about the subject...

PsychoViking
07-09-2009, 05:51 PM
The reason the Twins are terrible in day/getaway games is that Gardy is a terrible manager. He forces Tolbert in the 2 hole today when he shouldn't even be on the team, but Gardy LOVES him and gushes about how he runs hard and reminds him of himself. :rolleyes: Then Redmond is still playing over Morales. Combine that with Buscher and Punto and you've got a disgustingly awful lineup.

Liriano is already pissing himself through 2. He and Baker have to be the two least mentally tough pitchers EVER. They are approaching Kyle Lohse status.

twolvesguy
07-09-2009, 07:20 PM
I fckin hate the Yankees. :mad:

PsychoViking
07-09-2009, 08:15 PM
I wonder what it would take to get Halladay.

Baker/Liriano
Revere
Ramos
Manship

I wouldn't give up a whole lot of pitching, because we don't really have a whole lot of MLB ready arms. But I wonder if that would be enough to get it done? I'd be happy to give them either Young or Gomez if they want them over Revere.

Nastradamus
07-09-2009, 08:46 PM
Shoot, if you're going to keep him, give them whatever prospects they want. Most of your rotation will be set for the next few years anways with Baker,Halladay,Perkins,Blackburn and Liriano. You might have to give Liriano or another current SP, but screw it, Halladay is the best in the business. He'd make you dominant. He'd cost you Mauer though, thats the problem. Its not worth it to trade for him in the short term IMO. You better win a WS this year if you are going to make that move. Its possible. You would have possibly the best closer, starter and player in baseball plus Morneau, who is one of the game's elite hitters. Solid defense and pitching depth all around. The offense is a bit blah, but they have enough to get it done if they have elite pitching.

Nastradamus
07-09-2009, 08:50 PM
Liriano is already pissing himself through 2. He and Baker have to be the two least mentally tough pitchers EVER. They are approaching Kyle Lohse status.

This is quite the extreme. Many young pitchers have similar struggles. Nothing they won't work through. Lohse worked out ok, he'd look nice at the back end of that rotatoin.

PsychoViking
07-09-2009, 08:54 PM
Shoot, if you're going to keep him, give them whatever prospects they want. Most of your rotation will be set for the next few years anways with Baker,Halladay,Perkins,Blackburn and Liriano. You might have to give Liriano or another current SP, but screw it, Halladay is the best in the business. He'd make you dominant. He'd cost you Mauer though, thats the problem. Its not worth it to trade for him in the short term IMO. You better win a WS this year if you are going to make that move. Its possible. You would have possibly the best closer, starter and player in baseball plus Morneau, who is one of the game's elite hitters. Solid defense and pitching depth all around. The offense is a bit blah, but they have enough to get it done if they have elite pitching.

Don't be stupid. No one would ask for Mauer in a trade. NO ONE. Maybe if St Louis called up and offered Pujols, but thats about it. That is a really silly statement.

Liriano has had attitude/personality problems since day 1. He always shows up late to camp because he doesn't bother to work his visa issues out beforehand, then once he just up and left winter ball or something like that before talking to the Twins coaches/staff, even though he said he would, etc. Then he makes statements like "I don't know what to do when guys get on base", etc. He has a 10 cent head and no longer has the million dollar arm to go with it.

LionFan2k
07-09-2009, 08:59 PM
Don't be stupid. No one would ask for Mauer in a trade. NO ONE. Maybe if St Louis called up and offered Pujols, but thats about it. That is a really silly statement.

Liriano has had attitude/personality problems since day 1. He always shows up late to camp because he doesn't bother to work his visa issues out beforehand, then once he just up and left winter ball or something like that before talking to the Twins coaches/staff, even though he said he would, etc. Then he makes statements like "I don't know what to do when guys get on base", etc. He has a 10 cent head and no longer has the million dollar arm to go with it.

Losing 3 at home to the Yanks... bad form :p

The Tigs and Twins both have holes... as do the White Sux. The champ from the ALC will be probably the weakest team in the postseason again this year.

Nastradamus
07-09-2009, 09:10 PM
Don't be stupid. No one would ask for Mauer in a trade. NO ONE. Maybe if St Louis called up and offered Pujols, but thats about it. That is a really silly statement.

Liriano has had attitude/personality problems since day 1. He always shows up late to camp because he doesn't bother to work his visa issues out beforehand, then once he just up and left winter ball or something like that before talking to the Twins coaches/staff, even though he said he would, etc. Then he makes statements like "I don't know what to do when guys get on base", etc. He has a 10 cent head and no longer has the million dollar arm to go with it.

No, I meant that it would cost you Mauer in FA if you resigned Halladay. I'm not an idiot. Liriano's arm is not gone for good IMO. I didn't say he had the best attitude, but young players are immature, it comes with the territory. When you are a small market team, you have to have patience with your guys.

PsychoViking
07-09-2009, 09:16 PM
The Twins can ramp payroll up. Its not like Halladay is making Santana money. Mauer at $18M and Halladay at $15M fits just fine in a new stadium. They might have to let him walk after next year but they'd get 2 picks for him then anyway.

Nastradamus
07-09-2009, 09:22 PM
Losing 3 at home to the Yanks... bad form :p

The Tigs and Twins both have holes... as do the White Sux. The champ from the ALC will be probably the weakest team in the postseason again this year.

The Sox, if they can put it together, are a team that is built to do damage in the postseason. They have the game changing power hitters and a devastating 1,2 SP combo with a strong back end of the pen. I think they may fizzle down the stretch though.

The Tigers also would have a chance because of Verlander/Jackson, but our BP scares the crap out of me and the offense is average. Strong D though.

The Twins are built for the regular season IMO. They have 5 #3 type starters. Great for getting you through the season, but they don't have anyone who matches up with another team's ace. They do have a couple of game changing hitters though and they have multiple other players(Kubel,Cuddyer,Crede,Span, maybe even Young or Gomez) and a strong closer, but most of the pen is iffy.

Nastradamus
07-09-2009, 09:25 PM
The Twins can ramp payroll up. Its not like Halladay is making Santana money. Mauer at $18M and Halladay at $15M fits just fine in a new stadium. They might have to let him walk after next year but they'd get 2 picks for him then anyway.

Yeah I meant when they both become FAs, they would only be able to keep 1. Thats why I said he wasn't worth the price for a year and a half rental. 2 picks is nothing compared to what you'll give up. I'm not sure what the new stadium payroll would be, but close to 50 mil for 3 players seems a bit steep for a small market, new stadium or not. I don't see them as a 100 million dollar payroll team, but we'll see. Its possible.

PsychoViking
07-09-2009, 09:33 PM
Yeah I meant when they both become FAs, they would only be able to keep 1. Thats why I said he wasn't worth the price for a year and a half rental. 2 picks is nothing compared to what you'll give up. I'm not sure what the new stadium payroll would be, but close to 50 mil for 3 players seems a bit steep for a small market, new stadium or not. I don't see them as a 100 million dollar payroll team, but we'll see. Its possible.

I don't know, there isn't any room for Revere anyway, unless they deal Gomez/Young. Cuddyer will likely move on after next year but there is a logjam in the OF to begin with.

So if you can trade a current starter with talent but "issues", combined with a top prospect like Revere, a very good but redundant catcher prospect, combined with a young arm like Manship (probably not enough) then I'd consider it. Then you can replace prospects with 2 more draft picks.

A year and a half rental gives you two shots at winning a WS. If you can't get close by then you can still deal him at the deadline and get prospects back. If they can't get closer next year, then you have to start wondering how many of Mauer/Morneau's prime years you can just waste.

Regardless, I guarantee it won't happen because Bill Smith and the entire office are gutless losers.

VikingFan2k2
07-10-2009, 08:21 AM
Well, lost in this Halladay trade talk is the guy has a full no trade clause, why would he leave a .500 team just to go to another .500 team?

I'm not sure what we could give up, but I would hate for it to be Revere, he seems like a Span clone but with even more speed from what I've seen on the minor league reports. But if it were to get us Halladay it would be fantastic.

Liriano is continuing to make more and more of a case for himself to hit the bullpen, he made a real idiot of himself today, he looked just like Baker did on Tuesday, taking a minute between pitches, pitching scared, hanging his head. I know the defense didn't help him out much, but you can't hang one to Swisher like that.

Oh and it still baffles me how even our best hitters can't touch Rivera. I know he's the best of all time and all that jazz, but come on! Get to him ONCE!

Gardy's inability to beat the Yankees always has been and always will be his undoing.

PsychoViking
07-10-2009, 07:20 PM
He would come here because the Twins might actually be able to make the playoffs with him where he has no chance in Toronto.

Regardless, Billy won't let it happen.

twolvesguy
07-10-2009, 07:33 PM
Shoot, if you're going to keep him, give them whatever prospects they want. Most of your rotation will be set for the next few years anways with Baker,Halladay,Perkins,Blackburn and Liriano. You might have to give Liriano or another current SP, but screw it, Halladay is the best in the business. He'd make you dominant. He'd cost you Mauer though, thats the problem. Its not worth it to trade for him in the short term IMO. You better win a WS this year if you are going to make that move. Its possible. You would have possibly the best closer, starter and player in baseball plus Morneau, who is one of the game's elite hitters. Solid defense and pitching depth all around. The offense is a bit blah, but they have enough to get it done if they have elite pitching.

Please tell me your kidding. :confused: :eek:

twolvesguy
07-10-2009, 07:35 PM
No, I meant that it would cost you Mauer in FA if you resigned Halladay. I'm not an idiot.

Ooops, while I don't think it would cost us Mauer in Free agency, I was actually thinking you were insinuating the Twins would have to deal Mauer to Toronto to aquire Halladay. :o

twolvesguy
07-10-2009, 07:37 PM
So if you can trade a current starter with talent but "issues", combined with a top prospect like Revere, a very good but redundant catcher prospect,

I don't view Ramos as redundant. Talent is never redundant.

PsychoViking
07-10-2009, 07:41 PM
How could you not? He isn't going to start while Mauer is on the club, thus he is redundant. He is a trade chip and not much more unless you DH one of them a lot, which is stupid since Ramos is also supposed to be a very good defensive catcher.

Maybe Mauer can move to another position but you'd essentially have to do that in 2011 to make room for him. Most teams don't have a starting caliber guy as a backup because it isn't necessary. Morales can more than fill that role.

Bill Smith needs to realize that and not be afraid to deal him for Sanchez, Halladay, etc. I'd love to get Sanchez for Ramos and Manship. Actually, I'd love to be really aggressive and get Halladay AND Sanchez. Unfortunately neither will happen.

twolvesguy
07-10-2009, 08:34 PM
How could you not? He isn't going to start while Mauer is on the club, thus he is redundant. He is a trade chip and not much more unless you DH one of them a lot, which is stupid since Ramos is also supposed to be a very good defensive catcher.

Maybe Mauer can move to another position but you'd essentially have to do that in 2011 to make room for him. Most teams don't have a starting caliber guy as a backup because it isn't necessary. Morales can more than fill that role.

Bill Smith needs to realize that and not be afraid to deal him for Sanchez, Halladay, etc. I'd love to get Sanchez for Ramos and Manship. Actually, I'd love to be really aggressive and get Halladay AND Sanchez. Unfortunately neither will happen.

I'm not opposed to dealing Ramos in the right deal.... but Quality, young catching prospects who can HIT too are rare. Worst case he back up Mauer until Joe moves to 3rd.

VikingFan2k2
07-10-2009, 09:28 PM
Mauer to participate in the HR derby, interesting choice, he has a nice swing to the opposite field and he's bringing his old HS coach to pitch for him. Hopefully he can hold his own. I doubt he'll win, but it would be nice to see him make a run.

PsychoViking
07-11-2009, 02:08 AM
How many times is Cuddyer going to try to screw this team? The game was over until moron got picked off 1st in the 1st. He should have hit that hanging changeup out of the park, too. You aren't going to get a better pitch to hit than that.

Jackass.

PurplePride84
07-11-2009, 03:01 AM
He did keep the Sox at 4 with his catch in RF.

VikingFan2k2
07-13-2009, 06:45 PM
Good beatdown on the White Sux yesterday. Sounds like Casilla hit a HR and left the Rochester game in the 2nd inning, so it's sounding like Tolbert finally will be sent down and Casilla will be in Arlington with the club after the break.

Also, recently in an article, local "columnist" Sid Hartman reported that Gardy said that "20 other teams would take Nick Punto if we let him go". I know Gardy has a man crush on Punto, but that statement is absolutely ridiculous and I'm sure at least 20 teams laughed at us when we signed him for 2 years 8.5 million.

Now Punto is going to split time with Harris at SS when Casilla takes over at 2B, when his actual role should be what Tolbert's was, a late inning pinch runner/utility player/defensive sub.

ducky
07-14-2009, 11:07 PM
Also, recently in an article, local "columnist" Sid Hartman reported that Gardy said that "20 other teams would take Nick Punto if we let him go".

Yeah and all 20 teams would play him as a utility infielder....NOT A STARTER.

Hopefully Casilla can come back up and re-establish himself as a decent starter at this level. The only thing that I don't like about him being called up is that it almost certainly means that the Twins aren't going to be getting middle infield help via the trade market (Sanchez would be perfect for the right price for this team).

PsychoViking
07-17-2009, 02:43 PM
I wonder if they are going after Julio Lugo. He isn't a great option anymore but the Red Sox will be forced to pay most of his contract no matter what happens and it sounds like he is all but gone. He pretty much fits the usual Twins trade pattern, i.e. he is a mostly washed up veteran that would cost little in trade. I don't know if they'd be interested, though, because it still doesn't solve the 2B situation unless they play Lugo-Casilla, play Harris more at 3B because Crede's average is mediocre, and Punto can be the utility guy. Probably won't happen, but who knows.

PsychoViking
07-18-2009, 01:55 AM
Watching the game tonight, more of the same old same old. Perkins 5 innings 3 runs 105 pitches, Kubel with a HR and Casilla sucks balls. I think it is very likely that they will try to trade Casilla for a box of rocks before the deadline.

He has already made 3 mistakes in 5 innings. In the top of the 1st he made an out on ball 4, in the bottom of the inning he failed to field a fairly easy 1 hopper from Mauer, and in the 5th he failed to cover the bag on a double steal attempt that likely would have ended the inning.

Gardy is pulling his usual stupidity, as well. Hamilton was ripping Perkins but the idiot keeps pitching to him. Moron didn't learn his lesson with Pujols.

VikingFan2k2
07-18-2009, 03:05 AM
Watching the game tonight, more of the same old same old. Perkins 5 innings 3 runs 105 pitches, Kubel with a HR and Casilla sucks balls. I think it is very likely that they will try to trade Casilla for a box of rocks before the deadline.

He has already made 3 mistakes in 5 innings. In the top of the 1st he made an out on ball 4, in the bottom of the inning he failed to field a fairly easy 1 hopper from Mauer, and in the 5th he failed to cover the bag on a double steal attempt that likely would have ended the inning.

Gardy is pulling his usual stupidity, as well. Hamilton was ripping Perkins but the idiot keeps pitching to him. Moron didn't learn his lesson with Pujols.

I agree with everything you said except the last point, you can't possibly want him to intentionally juice the bases and put the go ahead run at the plate.

You know me, I'll rip Gardy with the best of them, but Perkins needed to man up and finally get the guy out, it's not like Hamilton was deserving of that all star selection, Pujols is 10 times the hitter that Hamilton is right now.

Anyways, despite grounding into 4 DPs, we still come up with the 5-3 win, Keppel had another nice showing with 2 perfect innings and Nathan nailed it down in the 9th.

Looks like the White Sox are going to win and the Tigers are down to the Yankees in a rain delay, let's gain some ground!

VikingFan2k2
07-19-2009, 03:42 AM
Wow, who pitched tonight and what did he do with Scott Baker?

8 innings, 1 run, very impressive. Cuddyer got off the schnide a little bit as well with a double and a HR.

PurplePride84
07-19-2009, 06:33 PM
The Twins signed Mark Grudzielanek to a minor league deal.

Nastradamus
07-19-2009, 07:16 PM
The Twins signed Mark Grudzielanek to a minor league deal.

Worth a shot, maybe he can give them a little production out of 2B.

ducky
07-20-2009, 05:42 AM
If there ever was an example of why players should NEVER join the home run derby, Mauer these last 6 or 7 games is it. Since the time he 1st practiced for it with his high school coach, he is 1-22 and had his average drop 30 points. I guarentee you after this that you will never seen him do it again.

Twins are playing well though. Pitching is starting to improve. Liriano still crapped the bed but if Gardie would have pulled him like he should have after the 6th he very likely would have got out of there with a W. Baker looked good the night before too.

And Keppel has been so great. Tonight was the 1st time that I think people actually hit the ball hard in the air against him (still outs).

As far as the trade talk...if I were Smith I doubt I would make a move either. Any move worth making would be completely mortgaging the future and a minor move just isn't worth it because its not like a minor tweak is going to put us over the top. (At least what it looks like all the major players are asking for in return for their players like Sanchez and Halladay...and Halladay is a pipe dream because the Twins don't have the pieces to pull it off...and there are no other starting pitchers out there that would improve us enough). So unless we can get a decent reliever for a guy that will probably never make the major league roster before being lost, I would just go with what we have. It might not be enough...but unless they do something major that hurts us in 2011 (when we will be looking to replace guys like Cuddyer and Kubel) it just won't do anything. This team was built to complete next year and I still consider this year and last year just a nice bonus at this point.

VikingFan2k2
07-20-2009, 06:18 AM
Terrible showing tonight, our middle of the order: Mauer, Morneau and Cuddyer all failed for the entire night. It's really sad when Nick Punto is your most productive offensive player on a given night.

Mauer was 0 for 6 and he looks like he's in a tailspin.

Morneau swung at a pitch that was 4 feet high and a foot and a half outside.

Cuddyer was overmatched no matter what pitcher the Rangers sent at him.

Just a bad night, not working counts, making quick outs, making guys like Guardado and O'Day look like F-ing All Stars.

Gardenhire made a big mistake with putting Liriano back out there in the 7th, he labored to get out of the 6th, an inning in which he threw 3 total strikes and got a flukey double play ball.

I almost never criticize a manager for leaving a pitcher in for too long, but Liriano could not throw strikes and was laboring, I don't know if it was due to the heat or what, but I knew that it was a bad idea and Keppel should have been out there to start the 7th.

An even worse decision by Gardy is to send a knuckle ball pitcher in with a runner on second in the bottom of the 12th. Don't get me wrong, I like what Dickey has done for us, but to send him out there when you have Nathan available after the Salty gets bunted over to second, i said right there that it was going to be over, a high knuckle ball and Kinsler puts it in the seats.

Between bad hitting and bad managing it seems like this team is scared of 1st place...

PurplePride84
07-21-2009, 03:20 AM
Whoa, 12 runs through 3 innings.

Morneau with 7 RBIs already. :eek:

ducky
07-21-2009, 05:59 AM
Most ****ed up game of the season. Most ****ed up game in years. Blown call ends the game after the Twins choke up a 10 run lead. Unbelievable.

Gardie and Anderson should both be taken behind the ballpark and beaten severely for the decisions they made in the last couple of innings.

VikingFan2k2
07-21-2009, 06:20 AM
Most ****ed up game of the season. Most ****ed up game in years. Blown call ends the game after the Twins choke up a 10 run lead. Unbelievable.

Gardie and Anderson should both be taken behind the ballpark and beaten severely for the decisions they made in the last couple of innings.

That was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen! I have NEVER seen anything like that in my life!!!

The Twins bullpen crapped the bed, and it says a lot about them considering how mediocre the A's lineup is...

Duensing, Keppel, Mijares all blew it... I can't hang this on Gardy or Anderson. That ump had a F-ed up strike zone all night for both teams but to blow that obvious safe call was the worst thing I have seen in years.

To waste a 13 run offensive explosion makes me just sick, this is the worst loss all season.

ducky
07-21-2009, 06:54 AM
I can't hang this on Gardy or Anderson.

I can.

The 6th inning should have been Mulvey's. He is one of the long relievers on this team right now. The GM called him up and that is the spot these guys are supposed to use him in. But yet Gardie and Anderson decided to use Duensing who is our other long reliever (long reliever being the key there) who had pitched yesterday (and is not used to pitching in back to back days) and then inexplicably was allowed to warm up for damn near an hour straight. Gardie had been quoted in the paper quite a few times saying he wasn't happy with the relief situation and IMO he was trying to send a message to Smith by not putting Mulvey in at that spot to find him another reliever.

And because of the collapse of Duensing, Keppel, and Mijares, they are put in Mulvey in for his major league debut in the 8th inning in a one run game. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Then in the 8th inning Gardie had one of his classic meltdowns.

Harris gets on and then they try to ask Redmond to bunt. That's not going to work but you already see what he's up to when he brings Mauer into the on deck circle (trying to get the tying run in position for Mauer). Yet after Redmond hits into a double play after predictably failing to get the bunt down, he still sends Mauer to the plate with 2 outs in the 8th only now with no one on. That is NOT the position you want to be using your best hitter of the bench in. At that point you HAVE to send Buscher not Mauer to the plate. HAVE TO.

Like I said…that is a MORONIC situation to use your best bat off the bench in. And if that were the only thing involved it wouldn't be that bad but....

...because Mauer is hitting for Casilla, Crede is unavailable to play the field, it means that Buscher HAS to take Mauer's spot as soon as the AB ends. So in one move Gardie wasted both his bats off the bench with no one on and two out in the 8th....WITH NICK PUNTO HITTING TWO SPOTS BEHIND WHICH MEANS THEY ARE GUARENTEEING PUNTO NEEDS TO BAT BEFORE THE GAME IS OVER.

Seriously there are pee wee managers who can see how bad of a move that is. (And this doesn't even begin to explain the folly that was batting Punto in the two hole).

Obviously you can't blame Gardie for losing the game. The Twins pitchers did that (hell the bad call by the ump at the end of the game was more fitting than a travesty). But Gardie's horrific in-game management once again helped lose the game. The guy is a moron when it comes to managing a game. He is GREAT (and I mean GREAT as in one of the best in the sport over the last couple decades) at getting his players to play the right way night in and night out but his in-game decisions are just god awful. They really need to hire a bench coach that can make Gardie see the errors of his ways before he makes some of these dumb move. Its been like this for far too long and we all know it.



this is the worst loss all season

You say that after about 50% of the losses. ;)

Tonight you finally got it right.

VikingFan2k2
07-21-2009, 07:48 AM
I can.

The 6th inning should have been Mulvey's. He is one of the long relievers on this team right now. The GM called him up and that is the spot these guys are supposed to use him in. But yet Gardie and Anderson decided to use Duensing who is our other long reliever (long reliever being the key there) who had pitched yesterday (and is not used to pitching in back to back days) and then inexplicably was allowed to warm up for damn near an hour straight. Gardie had been quoted in the paper quite a few times saying he wasn't happy with the relief situation and IMO he was trying to send a message to Smith by not putting Mulvey in at that spot to find him another reliever.

And because of the collapse of Duensing, Keppel, and Mijares, they are put in Mulvey in for his major league debut in the 8th inning in a one run game. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Then in the 8th inning Gardie had one of his classic meltdowns.

Harris gets on and then they try to ask Redmond to bunt. That's not going to work but you already see what he's up to when he brings Mauer into the on deck circle (trying to get the tying run in position for Mauer). Yet after Redmond hits into a double play after predictably failing to get the bunt down, he still sends Mauer to the plate with 2 outs in the 8th only now with no one on. That is NOT the position you want to be using your best hitter of the bench in. At that point you HAVE to send Buscher not Mauer to the plate. HAVE TO.

Like I said…that is a MORONIC situation to use your best bat off the bench in. And if that were the only thing involved it wouldn't be that bad but....

...because Mauer is hitting for Casilla, Crede is unavailable to play the field, it means that Buscher HAS to take Mauer's spot as soon as the AB ends. So in one move Gardie wasted both his bats off the bench with no one on and two out in the 8th....WITH NICK PUNTO HITTING TWO SPOTS BEHIND WHICH MEANS THEY ARE GUARENTEEING PUNTO NEEDS TO BAT BEFORE THE GAME IS OVER.

Seriously there are pee wee managers who can see how bad of a move that is. (And this doesn't even begin to explain the folly that was batting Punto in the two hole).

Obviously you can't blame Gardie for losing the game. The Twins pitchers did that (hell the bad call by the ump at the end of the game was more fitting than a travesty). But Gardie's horrific in-game management once again helped lose the game. The guy is a moron when it comes to managing a game. He is GREAT (and I mean GREAT as in one of the best in the sport over the last couple decades) at getting his players to play the right way night in and night out but his in-game decisions are just god awful. They really need to hire a bench coach that can make Gardie see the errors of his ways before he makes some of these dumb move. Its been like this for far too long and we all know it.




You say that after about 50% of the losses. ;)

Tonight you finally got it right.

I agree that Mulvey should have been brought in instead of Duensing, but one of those relievers have to man up and get the guys out.

I agree with you that Gardy messed up the 8th badly and he shouldn't have wasted Mauer in that spot with 2 outs and noone on, but Redmond also has to get the bunt down.

As far as the worst loss of the season line I use "after 50% of the losses" I think I've used it 3 times and all 3 times they have been true at the time.

Fandango
07-21-2009, 12:52 PM
What a horrible game for the Twins. :mad: I hope they can put it behind them quickly.

PsychoViking
07-21-2009, 01:52 PM
I'm glad I didn't stay up to watch it. MLB is screwed up in so many ways and last night was just one example. The morons that run the game should be embarrassed that MLB STILL doesn't really have a workable replay system. Calls continue to be botched and umpires look sub-human as far as their continual screw-ups are concerned.

These morons are scared of offending the 'purists' and would rather screw the end of games up. :confused: Its amazing.

I think the home plate umpire should be replaced by the k-zone stuff and every single thing should be reviewable. Give each manager 2 challenges and be done with it. At least once a week a team will run into a terrible home plate ump with a terrible strike zone and its somehow OK. K-zone is far more consistent than some biased egotistical moron behind the plate.

PsychoViking
07-21-2009, 02:01 PM
Also, everyone knows that Gardy mis-manages games and pitchers on a frequent basis. The biggest screw-up last night was giving Blackburn 10 days rest. They wanted to give him a longer break because he'll go 200+ innings this year but I've never seen a pitcher actually want that long of a layoff and it showed. Its clear that he wasn't on and I don't doubt that the layoff caused it. Moron.

ducky
07-21-2009, 03:06 PM
Boy I got to disagree with the strike zone idea. The umps zone is part of the game.

At the very least I would have to see some games in action using that idea before signing off on it. I guarantee you that K zone isn't as accurate as you think it would be and I bet there would be infuriating delays that it would cause (you know it wouldn't work all the time).

Not to mention because of the subtraction of roids in baseball, K Zone won't be an option for quite a long time. Umps strikes zones are much smaller than computers and if they expanded the zone now it would tilt the favor way too much to the pitchers and hurt the amount or runs in a game to where ratings might suffer.

I do think that MLB is headed towards a replay system similar to the NFL where they give the managers a couple of challenges already. I think the home run replay is part of the test run that will lead up to that point.

My only problem is that it is going to add time to an already LONG game. There are nights that I feel like I should be rewarded with some sort of achievement award after watching some games from start to finish (and I watch all games with the DVR so I am fast forward through all the commercials and other delays).

Honestly one of the problems with policing baseballs umpires is how incredibly hard the job is (nothing in sports even comes close). There are times where I look at the replays (especially force outs at 1st and such) where I can't tell even with the replay on super-slow mode whether the guy was safe or out.

When I was in high school I used to argue with umps all the time. Then I took a job umping games for little league games. Its at that point I quite argueing with umps because I realized how incredible hard the job is and what a good job they do at it for the most part (I was probably the worst ump you have ever seen....even 8 year olds were giving me crap. :o).

PsychoViking
07-21-2009, 08:22 PM
Those guys are already evaluated and graded with the technology. If its good enough to do that, its good enough to use live. Those morons have proven time and time again that they suck at their jobs.

VikingFan2k2
07-22-2009, 05:38 AM
Great win tonight, Swarzak gave us a much needed 7 innings, he had some command trouble early, but he only gave up 2 runs.

The offense sputtered until late when Cuddyer tripled in Mauer.

Guerrier and Nathan did very well to shut it down for the 10 inning victory.

As far as the debate about machines and the game goes, I would hate to see it run by machines, that stupid questech thing that they tried like 6 years ago would lose the ball several feet before it reached the plate, I remember umpires being hamstrung by them. Schilling even took a bat to one of them at one point. I don't think the technology is advanced enough yet for computers to be used.

Replay on the other hand should be used, a challenge or two per team. HR or not, fair or foul, out or safe etc.

PsychoViking
07-22-2009, 01:49 PM
Casilla must have looked awful at some point last night, Rosen just went off on him this morning on KFAN.

Can they just make a move already? You aren't going to win squat with Casilla/Punto as your middle IF combo and a bunch of AAA guys in the bullpen.

Smith just seems scared.

ducky
07-22-2009, 04:16 PM
Imagine how bad Gardie will be with two replay challenges. :eek: I can just see watching multiple replays of his little buddy Punto diving into 1st, being obviously out, and Gardie still challenging and losing with his rationale being that Punto never does anything wrong. ;)

Like I said I personally think MLB is already heading down that road with the home run challenges test that they are doing now and in a couple years they will expand that to an NFL like challenge system on outs (catches and plays at the plate and such). It will be limited in the beginning much like the NFL to certain plays I am sure.

It will never get to the point where they use a computer for balls and strikes though IMO.

I still don’t know what the Twin can and should do with Swarzak. He was more or less effectively wild last night and then all of a sudden in the middle innings he found a curve ball (he had never thrown it like he did last night) and just went to work with it. He really had trouble spotting his fastball last night however and you know that has to be troublesome to Anderson and the Twins.

Either way (if they keep him in the rotation or demote him again) it is really encouraging to have a young kid look like he has. He is certainly well on his way to being a big part of our rotation over the next 4 or 5 years and could really be a quality pitcher in time if he gets his control of his fastball a little more consistent and improves that change up (which is good already but can get better).

As far as Casilla….he is going to have to pick it up soon or he is going to lose the job again. But the Twins aren’t trading for anything. Its either Mark G (I’m not learning how to spell his name) in a couple of weeks or they go back to a Punto/Harris infield.

PsychoViking
07-22-2009, 08:07 PM
Why is Perkins still starting?

ducky
07-22-2009, 09:38 PM
Someone needs to remind the Twins pitchers that Oakland is the worst offensive team in the league. Christ what a bad showing by the pitchers in the 1st and 3rd games of this series. Hopefully someone settles downs and starts getting some outs or we are going to blow through our whole bullpen in a game we can't win.

The Q
07-23-2009, 04:45 AM
Why is Perkins still starting?

I thought he was winning the cy young this year? ;)

VikingFan2k2
07-23-2009, 07:41 AM
Of course Perkins goes on the DL again after the game, he throws a bad game he must have been injured. :rolleyes:

Where is the accountability here? Why can't we as an organization admit that a guy just got rocked and not create injuries, that's twice for Perkins now and the third time on the season...

This team needs help, and it's not coming in the form of Jesse Crain...

PsychoViking
07-23-2009, 01:47 PM
I thought he was winning the cy young this year? ;)

Only according to TWolves. Alexi Casilla is the best 2B in the league, too. :D ;)

twolvesguy
07-24-2009, 01:52 AM
Only according to TWolves. Alexi Casilla is the best 2B in the league, too. :D ;)

Ouch..... I thought I heard a ringing in my ear.

The season is still young folks! :)

VikingFan2k2
07-24-2009, 06:03 AM
Wow, what a terrible game...

Nathan gets squeezed by the umpire in the 9th, gives up a blooper and then a flukey play happens where the ball hits off of his glove and then the 2nd base bag.

Then Gardy throws Crainwreck right into the fire in the 10th, and surprise, surprise, he blows it in a virtual re-run of when we last saw him in the majors vs. the Cubs. The team needs to get rid of him immediately, he is unfixable.

ducky
07-24-2009, 04:53 PM
Eh.

Those games happen. Especially when the Twins take that west coast swing.

Long and short of it is that the Twins are 3-4 on this road trip and if they can win 2 of the next 3, it will be a successfull road trip no matter how it happened. Hopefully they can pull it together and get a couple of good pitching performances the next couple days.

Big start for Liriano tonight. The Twins need him to go 7 or 8 tonight.

PsychoViking
07-24-2009, 05:29 PM
I didn't even watch 1 minute of it last night. I'm glad these games haven't been on at 7pm.

twolvesguy
07-24-2009, 07:02 PM
I didn't even watch 1 minute of it last night. I'm glad these games haven't been on at 7pm.

Wow.... am I ever disappointed.

Are you telling me that you're so frustrated with this team that I can't enjoy anymore Psycho meltdowns? :o

PsychoViking
07-24-2009, 07:19 PM
I'm not going to stay up until midnight to watch a game that I know they are likely to lose. Its the same old story. Maybe Baker could go more than 5 innings without throwing 100 pitches, or Crain could not suck, or 100 of the same old stupid things could stop happening, but they don't and likely won't. I also really enjoy watching a .100 hitter in the 2 hole just because Gardy is a raging moron and tries to stick a body in there rather than just manning up and having Mauer hit there.

This team is going down the tubes fast if they don't get a 2B and a reliever.

Bill Smith might be the biggest moron in the world. Now he thinks that trading for Orlando Cabrera & some turd reliever from the A's might solve everything. Barf.

PsychoViking
07-25-2009, 03:48 AM
Like I said, this stuff is predictable, if not comical. Liriano and Baker act like their mentally weak selves. I'd have no problem demoting both of those losers if we had someone to call up. Liriano pisses himself again tonight. Its just sad at this point.

VikingFan2k2
07-25-2009, 11:23 PM
Not to be outdone, Blackburn goes out and gets touched up today. Granted, a lot of those were bad hits, but we needed someone to man up and he didn't. Dickey is quickly proving that his run was a complete fluke.

Casilla shouldn't be playing in the majors, when is Grudz going to be ready?

Now the only thing standing between us and being victims of a 4 game sweep is Swarzak. Strange how the most mentally tough starter on our team is a rookie...

PsychoViking
07-26-2009, 01:25 AM
Its not Blackburn's fault, Gardy buttfukked him. No pitcher should be given 10 days rest unless he has an injury. He is our best pitcher and only magically falls apart after the AS break.

Dude needs to be canned ASAP. Combine that with 900 other moronic mistakes like forcing .100 hitters into the #2 spot all year long and its obvious that he is just plain stupid.

VikingFan2k2
07-26-2009, 05:01 AM
Its not Blackburn's fault, Gardy buttfukked him. No pitcher should be given 10 days rest unless he has an injury. He is our best pitcher and only magically falls apart after the AS break.

Dude needs to be canned ASAP. Combine that with 900 other moronic mistakes like forcing .100 hitters into the #2 spot all year long and its obvious that he is just plain stupid.

I agree with you, but sadly Gardy had his lifetime contract extended from the time he won 3 division championships out of the gate.

VikingFan2k2
07-27-2009, 12:48 AM
Well, a 4-6 road trip is salvaged after the offense takes over and Swarzak gives us a much needed quality start for the 10-1 win. Still very disappointing with how the road trip started and blowing a pair of leads (one of them by 10 runs) in Oakland and Anaheim...

I've heard rumors about Orlando Cabrera being on the Twins radar and I have mixed feelings about it. He is not the player he once was, but any kind of spark that could be had from him would be a good addition. I wouldn't mind seeing him on board if it meant it would cut into Casilla's and/or Punto's playing time so long as we are not giving up a lot for him. I also heard there is a clause in his contract that even if he is somehow a type A free agent that we wouldn't get a draft pick if he leaves, so that's something to think about as well.

If the Twins were in just about any other division, we more than likely would be sellers, but we have the White Sox and a chance to make up some ground back at the homer dome tomorrow.

PsychoViking
07-28-2009, 02:09 PM
Billy Beane can choke on it!

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/2009/07/27/postgame-update-nathan-span-perkins-valencia/

(*) Heard today that Oakland has asked for Class AAA Rochester 3B Danny Valencia in return for SS Orlando Cabrera. Twins would never do that, but it was a reminder that Valencia’s name probably comes up frequently in trade talks. Valencia didn’t play for Rochester tonight, making me suspicious, but I checked and Valencia was sick after going 0-for-6 on Sunday.

twolvesguy
07-28-2009, 02:11 PM
Billy Beane can choke on it!

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/2009/07/27/postgame-update-nathan-span-perkins-valencia/

(*) Heard today that Oakland has asked for Class AAA Rochester 3B Danny Valencia in return for SS Orlando Cabrera. Twins would never do that, but it was a reminder that Valencia’s name probably comes up frequently in trade talks. Valencia didn’t play for Rochester tonight, making me suspicious, but I checked and Valencia was sick after going 0-for-6 on Sunday.

Agreed, that'll NEVER happen.

In fact, if Crede doesn't come back soon, I expect Valencia to be called up before Sept.

Fandango
07-28-2009, 03:14 PM
Valencia is as close to untouchable as there is in the Twins organization, there is no way that they would give him up for Orlando Cabrera, who is simply not worth it.

They would be much better off trading some of their pitching prospects for Freddy Sanchez.

ducky
07-28-2009, 03:45 PM
They would be much better off trading some of their pitching prospects for Freddy Sanchez.

With Slowey going down and Perkins last night throwing like a grandma (his velocity is WAY down) that is probably not a great option anymore either. (Manship is untouchable at this point too because of it).

....unless someone is willing to take a bunch of C prospects in return, the Twins aren't going to add anything to the roster before the trade deadline IMO. Right now the Twins can afford to move an extra outfielder (Winfree), maybe a guy like Hughes, and a couple of class A arms and that is about it. Other than that we either need what we have in the future or don't have anything of value to offer.

Nastradamus
07-28-2009, 09:16 PM
Valencia is as close to untouchable as there is in the Twins organization, there is no way that they would give him up for Orlando Cabrera, who is simply not worth it.

They would be much better off trading some of their pitching prospects for Freddy Sanchez.

You have to realize that they are going to start the asking high. They can't expect to get him in reality. It shows that they know Wallace is no 3B though.

Nastradamus
07-28-2009, 09:17 PM
With Slowey going down and Perkins last night throwing like a grandma (his velocity is WAY down) that is probably not a great option anymore either. (Manship is untouchable at this point too because of it).

....unless someone is willing to take a bunch of C prospects in return, the Twins aren't going to add anything to the roster before the trade deadline IMO. Right now the Twins can afford to move an extra outfielder (Winfree), maybe a guy like Hughes, and a couple of class A arms and that is about it. Other than that we either need what we have in the future or don't have anything of value to offer.

The twins have a ton of polished, strike throwing arms, which Beane happens to love to acquire in return for veterans.

ducky
07-28-2009, 10:02 PM
The twins have a ton of polished, strike throwing arms, which Beane happens to love to acquire in return for veterans.

You are going to have to list them for me because I follow the Twins and I know there isn't anything in AAA and, unless you consider the over-aged guys in AA as legit targets, there isn't anything AA that would really get another GM excited.

The only really legit MLB caliber starters the Twins have at those two levels are Manship (like I said....at this point with the staff the way it is he is probably considered untouchable because he is the next call up if a starter goes down I would believe) and Guerra (untouchable because of talent). After that the talent level is pretty questionable.

Maybe Mulvey or Devries they could like and want to take a chance on....but after that there just isn't a whole lot except down at the lower levels of the orginization in terms of starting pitching.

twolvesguy
07-29-2009, 03:21 AM
You are going to have to list them for me because I follow the Twins and I know there isn't anything in AAA and, unless you consider the over-aged guys in AA as legit targets, there isn't anything AA that would really get another GM excited. .

You've already proved you don't follow the Twins minor leagues...... which..... glass completely empty..... isn't much of a surprise.

ducky
07-29-2009, 03:21 AM
Talk about a strange game.

Buerhle pitches 5+ great innings of perfect baseball and then gives up a hit. And after that the Chicago defense just kills him. Scott P should have caught Mauer's ball. And the play by Getz where he ran the wrong play on what should have resulted in a routine ground ball from Crede is one of the most inexplicibable and unexcusable plays I have seen all year. If Punto or Casilla would have made that play, we would have filled up a full page with our bitching and PV would have come up with another great nickname.

After watching the Twins play the Tigers and the Sox this season, I really think we have a shot at the division. Not because of how good we are but because all these teams are just as lousy as we are. The fact that we have probably have the easiest schedule down the stretch is really going to help us out.

ducky
07-29-2009, 03:22 AM
You've already proved you don't follow the Twins minor leagues...... which..... glass completely empty..... isn't much of a surprise.

When did we prove that???

And this coming from a guy who likes to talk about sports....but doesn't actually follow sports. :confused:

You're like the common man (from KFAN) of KFFL on MN Sports. (now that's an insult ;))

VikingFan2k2
07-29-2009, 07:43 AM
Glad to get to Buehrle again (better late then never).

These haven't been mind blowing wins over the White Sox, but they have been wins, and that is what is the most important.

It's time to get a sweep over these jerks and hopefully payback for the Halos this weekend.

PsychoViking
07-29-2009, 02:08 PM
When did we prove that???

And this coming from a guy who likes to talk about sports....but doesn't actually follow sports. :confused:

You're like the common man (from KFAN) of KFFL on MN Sports. (now that's an insult ;))

Funny, TW may actually be common man!

The Twins have very little MLB ready starting pitching in the minors.

Duensing is garbage IMO and isn't even a good MLB long relief guy.

Manship might be OK but you've got to wonder why he was so mediocre at AA (4.5+ ERA IIRC).

Mulvey is pretty mediocre and may end up as a Boof Bonser long relief type in MLB, if anything at all.

ducky
07-29-2009, 02:37 PM
The nice thing about the Cabrera thing is that we are probably the only team in on it and Oakland can either take whatever scraps we offer in return or he can walk away at the end of the year and they will get nothing in return (he is almost certain to qualify as a type A guy from the looks of it).

Asking for Valencia is actually quite laughable when they are in absolutely no position to negotiate.

From that standpoint I actually think this thing will get done and Cabrera will be a Twin in a couple of days and we won't have to give much up for him at all.

PsychoViking
07-29-2009, 03:01 PM
Probably. Might even happen after the deadline, although someone else may claim him to prevent that.

I'd probably pass on Sanchez at this point. Sounds like he could have been dealt to SF but his knee is questionable. I'd still be interested but not for anything more than a mid-level prospect.

ducky
07-29-2009, 04:08 PM
I'd probably pass on Sanchez at this point. Sounds like he could have been dealt to SF but his knee is questionable. I'd still be interested but not for anything more than a mid-level prospect.

Sanchez for me is a different story.

I would offer much more for him because with him you get a year and a half of service out of him and you also will get two early draft picks at the end of his run here.

Because of that the Pirates can ask for quite a lot. I would have no problem sending them 3 or 4 players (qty over quality) and would only make some of our last two draft classes and about 8 more minor league guys untouchable. Unfortunately I think the Pirates will get a better offer than that.

But between the cost in prospects and in $$$, I highly doubt the Twins make that move.


How kick ass would it be if the Twins were able to get both of those guys and move Punto and his contract at the same time (who doesn't have high value but does have some value). Send Punto to a contender looking for infield depth and better defense, send Casilla along as part of the prospects to the Pirates, and our infield would be Cabrera and Sanchez with Harris backing up the spots and 3rd.

Completely unrealistic but fun to think about.

PsychoViking
07-29-2009, 07:02 PM
Liriano = dead. They should get on the horn and see what Seattle wants for Washburn.

Liriano could be scratched from tonight’s start
Posted on July 29th, 2009 – 1:16 PM
By La Velle

Twins lefthander Francisco Liriano was sent to the hospital last night to have swelling in his left forearm examined and might not be able to start tonight against the White Sox.

Liriano, who had an MRI exam while at the hospital, will be checked out when he arrives at the Dome later this afternoon.

“It will be a (team trainer) Rick McWane and (pitching coach) Rick Anderson decision,” Twins general manager Bill Smith said moments ago.

Knuckleballer R.A. Dickey and lefthander Brian Duensing are candidates to take the ball if Liriano can’t start.

Liriano, 4-10 with a 5.56 ERA, has been a major disappointment this season. He’s winless in his last four starts.

The last thing the Twins need is another injury to a starting pitcher. There’s little depth beyond righthander Anthony Swarzak, who is filling in for Kevin Slowey (wrist surgery) for the rest of the season.

ducky
07-29-2009, 07:03 PM
UUggg.

Looks like there is something wrong with Liriano (swelling in forearm) and that he could be stratched from his start tonight which would mean RA Dickey or Duensing would get the start.

Lets hope this is something minor.

tommyboy
07-29-2009, 10:30 PM
duensing getting the start...

PurplePride84
07-29-2009, 11:58 PM
and Sanchez traded to SF

ducky
07-30-2009, 03:32 PM
Big 24 hours coming up for Smith.

After all the crap the Big 3 were talking about adding players, there is a lot of pressure on him to make some kind of move.

Hopefully he can do something that helps us now but doesn't hurt us much at all in the future.

Fandango
07-30-2009, 04:37 PM
It really shouldn't take that much to get Orlando Cabrerra, and even though I don't consider him to be a great player, he would still represent a pretty big upgrade over Punto.

ducky
07-30-2009, 04:51 PM
It really shouldn't take that much to get Orlando Cabrerra, and even though I don't consider him to be a great player, he would still represent a pretty big upgrade over Punto.

The problem is that with Gardie it is Harris that is getting squeezed out of AB's with the addition of Cabrera.

If we get Cabrera, Casilla almost assuredly gets thrown back to the minors and Punto become the everyday 2nd baseman.

....its a shame that Harris can't turn the double play from 2nd well enough to have him play there for Gardie.

PsychoViking
07-30-2009, 05:02 PM
If Crede can't get his average up or start hitting a little more consistently I'd play Harris more at 3B and start him at DH against lefties.

Fandango
07-30-2009, 05:50 PM
The problem is that with Gardie it is Harris that is getting squeezed out of AB's with the addition of Cabrera.

If we get Cabrera, Casilla almost assuredly gets thrown back to the minors and Punto become the everyday 2nd baseman.

....its a shame that Harris can't turn the double play from 2nd well enough to have him play there for Gardie.

I know....and it really sucks that Gardie would make such a senseless decision. Punto needs to be out of the starting lineup ASAP.

PurplePride84
07-30-2009, 09:31 PM
I heard the Bucs asked for Hicks or Valencia for Freddy Sanchez.

Can't blame Billy Smith for that one.

VikingFan2k2
07-31-2009, 12:51 AM
Only about 20 hours left for Belly Smith.

I wonder if the fact that Casilla actually produced last night will convince the fatty that we don't need to trade for an infielder. :rolleyes:

Or is Grudzlelanek the real answer? Another aging piece of garbage that the FO will try to pawn off on us as a bigtime mid-season acqusition.

Grudz = Bret Boone, and if he's the reason we don't deal for an infielder, I will be furious.

Make a trade Smith, whether it's to shore up a still shaky pitching staff or to fill the gap that has been in the 2 hole all season long.

PurplePride84
07-31-2009, 01:22 AM
Cabrera or Scutaro would be great additions.

In fact, a Cabrera/Wuertz or Scutaro/Downs, Frasor or League deal would help the lineup and the 'pen.

I'm not holding my breath though. :(

PurplePride84
07-31-2009, 04:44 AM
Sounds like they're making progress on Cabrera...

ducky
07-31-2009, 01:49 PM
It'll be interesting to see what we give up for him. Probably only a single C type of prospect similar to how we sent a Hamberger last year to Texas for Everyday Eddie (or was that two years ago now :confused:).

ducky
07-31-2009, 04:20 PM
The Tigers just got Washburn from Seattle.

That REALLY hurts the Twins chances down the stretch. The one thing we had going for us is that their rotation, while great at the top, was pretty bad from the #3-#5 spots.

PsychoViking
07-31-2009, 05:25 PM
Cabrera for last year's 2nd round pick Tyler Ladendorf. Not sure how I feel about that, especially given our extremely weak middle infielders in the minors. I read up on him a bit last year and it sounds like he could be pretty good in the future, although he struggled with a wood bat so far.

ducky
07-31-2009, 06:29 PM
The way I look at it...

Maybe Ladendorf wasn't going to be a good hitter at the ML level and was just going to be a solid, athletic, versatile defender....so maybe we just got rid of Gardie's next favorite light hitting utility infielder. ;)

Certainly not a top prospect type but something that did give us a little minor league middle infield depth (which is something this orginization has been trying to rebuild for the last 3 or 4 years). I probably would have pulled the trigger though too on this just because the guys in the clubhouse were screaming for some kind of help and its not like Ladendorf is all that close and a great prospect.

Nastradamus
07-31-2009, 08:54 PM
The Twins could really use the revenue from making the postseason and they rarely "go for it", so I think it was a smart move to make. It doesn't appear that this prospect was exactly the next great thing. Their farm system is stacked with talent, so I don't think its a really big deal. They will trade pitching prospects for their position talent.

ducky
07-31-2009, 09:12 PM
Washburn to the Tigers and Peavy to the Sox.

Well that's not good (although I never mind seeing division rivals give up young pitching for rent a players....although that isn't exactly the case with Peavy).

Was it me or did Cleveland just give Martinez away for next to nothing???

Everyone in the hunt got better today in the AL Central....and we had by far the smallest upgrade/move. Should be interesting down the stretch. If Cabrera can stay hot down the stretch and Mark G can get up here in a couple weeks and do what he does, we actually could have a decent shot with our schedule even with the other teams getting some serious upgrades....but from here on out the starting pitching is going to have to really become halfway solid again and stay healthy.

PsychoViking
07-31-2009, 11:27 PM
The Twins could really use the revenue from making the postseason and they rarely "go for it", so I think it was a smart move to make. It doesn't appear that this prospect was exactly the next great thing. Their farm system is stacked with talent, so I don't think its a really big deal. They will trade pitching prospects for their position talent.

Why do you keep saying this? Other than a few good prospects like Revere and Hicks (and a few others like Gutierrez) its a whole lot of mediocre talent like the Manships and Luke Hughes of the world.

Nastradamus
08-01-2009, 03:04 AM
The Twins are deep all the way through with polished, strike throwing arms. That's what teams want in return when trading big major league talent.

Nastradamus
08-01-2009, 03:05 AM
Washburn to the Tigers and Peavy to the Sox.

Well that's not good (although I never mind seeing division rivals give up young pitching for rent a players....although that isn't exactly the case with Peavy).

Was it me or did Cleveland just give Martinez away for next to nothing???

Everyone in the hunt got better today in the AL Central....and we had by far the smallest upgrade/move. Should be interesting down the stretch. If Cabrera can stay hot down the stretch and Mark G can get up here in a couple weeks and do what he does, we actually could have a decent shot with our schedule even with the other teams getting some serious upgrades....but from here on out the starting pitching is going to have to really become halfway solid again and stay healthy.

I think Cleveland got a nice haul, headlined by Masterson, for a guy who isn't going to be playing C a whole lot longer and isn't necessarily a great bat for 1B.

tommyboy
08-01-2009, 03:47 AM
is it too late to trade for a reliever....awful. Crede been a disappointment for sure....

VikingFan2k2
08-01-2009, 08:13 AM
Wow, that was pathetic, still more signs that this bullpen does not have what it takes to compete...

Cabrera is solid, but not spectacular, but he cant pitch...

Detroit loses too, so we fail to take advantage of an opportunity...

PsychoViking
08-02-2009, 01:24 AM
This team is fukked. Only Bill Smith could be OK rolling with RA Dickey, Bobby Keppel, Crain, Duensing, etc. Maybe we can call some mid additional mid 30s trash up from Rochester to complete the AAA bullpen.

VikingFan2k2
08-02-2009, 09:42 PM
What a complete waste, we sweep the Sox only to be swept by the Angels. It's a miracle to be only 3 games out right now...

This pitching staff is pathetic, they refuse to pitch inside and the opposing hitters have no fear of anything they throw.

ducky
08-03-2009, 05:11 PM
Boy after watching the Twins this year, I really don't know what to say about them any longer.

I thought the young starting pitching would be pretty good this year. It hasn't been.

It's not Punto, its not the bullpen, its not a lack of power, a lack of speed, a lack of hitting that is slowing this team down. First and foremost our starting pitching is lacking and is the biggest reason we sit below 500 right now. Sure there are other areas that could use some work....but until we start getting more consistant starting pitching, it isn't going to make much of a difference.

...and the biggest concern is that this could be a problem for this team for the next couple of years because there aren't any really good pitching prospects just waiting to step in and do the job and the Twins don't spend enough money to fix this kind of hole. It certainly will be interesting to see how Smith deals with this or see if he just sticks with the guys they have heading forward (because the rotation could bounce back next year....or it could be just as bad as it has been this year too).

The Q
08-03-2009, 06:34 PM
I really liked Ladendorf coming out of his JUCO last year. A legit 5 tool SS.

But sometimes guys don't put it together. I think it was worth the risk for both sides tho.

Twins needed OC badly and the A's are using scouting as their new market inefficiency and adding more 5 tool prospects.

VikingFan2k2
08-05-2009, 04:56 AM
Gave Cleveland a much needed beat down tonight. We needed a victory like that to start off the road trip. Baker gets the run support and shuts down the Cleveland bats. Granted it's a gutted team, but the Twins can't take any victory, especially on the road lightly.

Detroit loses, Chicago wins, it doesn't seem like any team wants to win the Central.

Fandango
08-05-2009, 04:23 PM
Good win, and nice starting pitching performance by Scott Baker...both were needed immensely!!!!

PsychoViking
08-06-2009, 02:54 PM
Liriano is a gutless loser.

ducky
08-06-2009, 09:10 PM
Lose the series to a Cleveland team that has been ripped in two in the last week by all their trades. :rolleyes:

This weekend series against the Tigers is of vital importance. We MUST sweep them.

To give you an idea of how it gets late very soon in baseball...

Right now the Tigers are on pace to win between 86 or 87 games.

The Twins are 53-55 right now. If the Tigers stay on their current pace, the Twins would have to go 33 - 21 (a .611 winning percentage) to tie that 86 win pace that the Tigers are on.

...in the end if the Twins have a bad showing in Detroit this weekend, the season is over.

VikingFan2k2
08-07-2009, 09:07 AM
The funny thing is, I heard a local radio guy Justin Gaard say that he wouldn't be surprised to see the Twins sweep the Tigers this weekend, and neither would I... That's just how the season has gone...

Liriano is supposedly going to miss his next start, which might be a good thing, except that means Perkins is definately staying in the rotation.

What happened to these guys? What happened to this pitching staff in general?

Blackburn finally throws a good game post all star break and the bats go silent.

Now comes the blame game:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/52610027.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUqCP:iUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aU LPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr

Redmond should have started against Laffey on Wednesday and not put in the lineup against Carmona who apparantly owns him.

PurplePride84
08-07-2009, 05:29 PM
Twins acquire Carl Pavano for a PTBNL.

Yay.

ducky
08-07-2009, 06:31 PM
Lets hope that PTBNL means Potatochips To Be Named Later.

Pavano has been shaky over the last two months (and that is putting it nicely) and considering his inning total this year has almost exceeded his inning total from the last 3 years combined, this doesn't look to be all that promising of an addition (and with the escalators in his contract, he is going to be an expensive rental to boot).

VikingFan2k2
08-07-2009, 08:22 PM
Ugh... I haven't liked this guy since his Florida days, he has had one good season in his entire career, the rest have been .500 or below.

This is a Phil Nevin/Bret Boone type of signing.

ducky
08-07-2009, 08:32 PM
3 of us are not impressed.

That probably means he is going to be lights out for the rest of the year. ;)

VikingFan2k2
08-07-2009, 10:47 PM
3 of us are not impressed.

That probably means he is going to be lights out for the rest of the year. ;)

Exactly, since I'm wrong more often than not, I figure if I rip on him he'll be a gem and then I'll be happy to eat crow. :)

tommyboy
08-07-2009, 11:40 PM
stick a fork in the 2009 twins. the pitching is just too awful to overcome....

VikingFan2k2
08-08-2009, 06:50 AM
If we pitch, we can't hit, if we hit, we can't pitch... Dangerous combination...

Our new pitcher gets to go head to head with Verlander tomorrow. Goody...

Nastradamus
08-10-2009, 01:59 AM
You guys gave us(detroit) a nice battle, but your pitching wouldn't allow you to put games away. Pavano was impressive against us as usual, but Baker was pretty awful. Mauer and Morneau own us. They have almost a .500 OBP against us over 250 plate appearances. Christ. Still, I'd have to think you guys are out of it for this year. The future is still bright though.

VikingFan2k2
08-10-2009, 08:12 AM
Baker deserves to be blasted more than he is being locally, he can't beat big teams in big situations, we have Deroit on the ropes with moon shots from Cuddyer and Young of all people and he goes out and gives up a 4 spot the next inning.

We gave Baker that big contract and he is doing his best Joe Mays impersonation, AKA a pu$$y who can't handle when even the slightest thing goes wrong. The fact that we traded Garza is bugging me more and more all the time, I don't care if Delmon were a superstar right now, it wouldn't matter because our boys cannot pitch!

I don't know if it's coaching, or overestimation of talent or bad luck or what, but there is no starter on this team that I trust right now.

ducky
08-10-2009, 03:55 PM
The future is still bright though.

To me the future got a lot darker with every passing day of this season so far.

To win anything of significance the Twins are going to have to greatly improve their pitching. That is much easier said than done....especially for a small market team that doesn't spend a lot of money. Like VF2K2 said...at this point we don't even know what pitchers we can trust. That doesn't only go for their next turn in the rotation....that goes for the next two or three years.

Then add into that the fact that our infield with the exception of 1st base is completely up in the air next year and moving forward from that because we have hardly any real ML ready prospects ready to come in and compete for those spots.

It better be an interesting offseason. The Twins will not be any better next year unless it makes some big moves during the offseason to get a vet starter on its staff and to get a couple of infielders that have a major league bat. If they go with "the Twins way" approach of just trying to build from within, next season won't be any better than this year in all liklihood.

Nastradamus
08-10-2009, 07:30 PM
The Twins will definitely have to make a few moves. I think re-signing Cabrera would be a great start. There aren't a lot of starting caliber Shortstops out there who can hit too. Team him with Harris/Casilla(open competition) up the middle and then at least you have some sort of direction. Punto is a great utility guy, even though he's overpriced. If OC is losing some range, Punto can be the defensive option.

They need to find a 3B and a veteran starter after that. Maybe a trade for a cheaper guy like Kouzmanoff and bring in a SP in FA. They can't afford a top of the line guy obviously, but they could grab someone at the next level. It will be a tough task, but they can pull it off. Its not like they are that bad off as far as starting pitching goes. Liriano,Baker,Slowey,Perkins,Blackburn,Swarzak is a nice core to work with, even if only 3 or 4 of them really help you out.
This team always manages to put at least a solid squad together. I wouldn't worry about them too much. Especially as long as they have the M&M core plus guys like Span and Kubel. I expect an active offseason. Young and a few others, possibly a few of the SPs will probably be shipped out to shake things up and add talent to the roster.

PsychoViking
08-10-2009, 08:36 PM
I'm really bleeping sick of Gardy. I just wish they'd fire the guy. Now he throws Harris under the bus for not guarding the line, while trying to make it sound like he is taking responsibility because he didn't tell him to.

This idiot actually thinks that he shouldn't have to manage. Just sit there and assume everyone knows what to do and what he wants them to do. This schmuck actually thinks that he shouldn't have to manage.........I mean, if he doesn't have to tell anyone anything, what the heck are they paying him to do? Sit there and look stupid?

VikingFan2k2
08-11-2009, 06:38 AM
The White Sox get Alex Rios for nothing from the Blue Jays. I know he's overpaid, but he kills the AL Central.

Now both Detroit and Chicago lose tonight and the Twins (amazingly) are still in this thing. A homestand against KC and Cleveland is just what we need, but it's something we have to take advantage of, we are at HOME, these are must win series'.

ducky
08-12-2009, 02:48 PM
Tried to watch the Twins last night....didn't even make it through the 2nd inning.

This team is falling apart.

PurplePride84
08-12-2009, 03:10 PM
Tried to watch the Twins last night....didn't even make it through the 2nd inning.


LOL, neither did I.

I know they've gone on crazy runs before, but I don't see this team doing it. Stick a fork in 'em...

ducky
08-12-2009, 03:44 PM
In starting to think about the offseason, IMO the Twins are going to need to give up one of their bats to get the pieces to bring in more pitching. I bet Kubel or Cuddyer are both big candidates for a trade this offseason (especially since we could lose both at the end of the year to FA) even though neither has major value because Cuddyer has a big salary next season and Kubel is still a situational player who can't hit lefties. That would open up a spot in the outfield for Gomez and Young to both play everyday next season (both are starting to show signs of improvement lately) and it would give us some money to go get a FA pitcher and a prospect or two to give us the flexability to trade for another pitcher as well.

....its going to be interesting to say the least at how Smith approaches trying to improve this team heading into next season.

Nastradamus
08-12-2009, 08:35 PM
How often do you see a lefty really? Not often enough that Kubel isn't worth having around. You trade him and you just leave yourself a big hole at DH.
You are already thin in the OF. Cuddyer is a boom or bust power hitter and neither Gomez or Young has developed into a major league player. Its only worth trading Kubel if it fills 2 other holes IMO. You don't have a ton of position talent on the way, keep your position guys, trade arms. You might not have elite arms, but you have a lot of quality arms who are worth a gamble and at worst could be solid BOR guys or RPs.

If I was going to trade big names, I would start with Baker and Liriano. I think both have the talent/potential to attract plenty of suitors. Either could bring back some nice prospects or a young positional player. I really like the idea of the Twins getting Kouzmanoff also. He should be available and he isn't too expensive. He'd be an ideal fit at 3B for this team. Especially since there aren't a ton of options out there that you can afford. Unless Mauer is the 3B next year of course;)

Whats the outlook for Slowey? Will he be able to contribute next year?
If so, he,Perkins,Blackburn and one of Baker and Liriano should be able to fill out 3 or 4 of the SP spots. Swarzak or Pavano could even fill the 5th spot. This team needs an ace though and I don't know how they can possibly acquire one. Brandon Webb is an intriguing idea, maybe Chris Young too. If they plan to up the payroll, they could go for Lackey I guess. I doubt the Twins way includes any of these options though.

The Q
08-12-2009, 08:43 PM
They should go for Headley over Kouz.

Scutaro would be a nice fit at SS.

I think they just need a cheap RHH to platoon with Kubel to maximize the DH slot. Nothing wrong with a platoon there. Honestly, it sounds nuts, but Bill Hall DESTROYS LHP historically and has the defensive versatility the Twins like. Not saying he's a great option, but he could be a cheap one.

That or get another OF and let that be Cuddyer's day off (at DH).

Nastradamus
08-13-2009, 01:05 AM
I like Cuddyer as a 4th OF/platoon DH. He isn't all that great against righties IIRC . I don't think Scutaro is much of an upgrade over Punto. I'd rather have Cabrera back. I'd take headley over Kouz, but I thought SD's plan was to keep Headley and deal Kouz. No?
Hall's a decent idea and he is available as of today. JJ Hardy could probably be had too. They are going with the young SS and sent Hardy to the minors. He and Punto might work in some way.

ducky
08-13-2009, 03:24 PM
The Twins won't be signing or trading for a 3rd baseman this offseason. They have a young kid named Danny Valencia who they refused to trade during the last trade deadline because he is the "future" there for us. Looking forward to seeing him play this Sept.

...and if the Twins were going to sign a vet 3rd baseman I really think the one they would be most interested in would be resigning Crede. Crede has done very well considering how much he has had to start and go because of little nicks here and there. Next season he will be another year removed from back surgery, will have his 1st full offseason to get it stronger without any surgeries, and won't have to play on an artificial surface. The fact that it has held up this year is really encouraging for him.

That said I don't think the Twins will resign him because of Valencia. IMO some team is going to get a steal with Crede one of these years. He is going to stay healthy and hit 30+ HR's for a team before his career is over and while he isn't great defensively (who is at 3rd these day???) he is as solid as they come.

I think the Twins do end up resigning Cabrera. He won't be uber expensive and will sign at the very max a 2 year deal. They are almost backed into that position because of the lack of depth they have in the infield especially since Valencia is the only infielder that the Twins have in their system in all liklihood that will be a ML caliber infielder and ready enough to play next season.

The reason that I think that Kubel or Cuddyer get moved is because they essentially take up the same position...below average outfield defensively/good offensive bat. Kubel really is not a whole lot worse than Cuddyer in the outfield except he lacks the rocket arm. In either case you are sacrificing a lot of range to get their bats in the line-up.

I think that would be the 1st move the Twins try and make just because they need to play Gomez and Young everyday next season. Both of them have shown small signs as the season has wore on after their slow starts (which a lot of which was caused by them not being in the line up everyday IMO). They would have to get value back for either Cuddyer or Kubel though as both have a very good shot of being type A free agents at the end of next season and are locks to be type B guys. If they don't get value, it will probably be Young or Gomez that gets moved....and for those two we CAN'T get true value (both of these guys are going to be very good ML players in time IMO).

How good was it to watch Liriano last night??? He didn't pitch as well as the numbers indicate (Royals really helped him out) but he was still excellant. Lets hope he can finish strong.

PsychoViking
08-13-2009, 07:37 PM
They need to trade Cuddyer in the offseason. He is a gutless loser and makes way too much money. Before today's game he was hitting .232 with runners on and .234 with RISP. His BA/OPS is terrible in clutch situations and he pulls his usual gutless loser routine again today so far (through 7).

Sign Mauer before you trade him, then use the money to get a starting pitcher and let Young/Gomez/Span figure it out.

ducky
08-13-2009, 07:55 PM
They need to trade Cuddyer in the offseason. He is a gutless loser and makes way too much money. Before today's game he was hitting .232 with runners on and .234 with RISP. His BA/OPS is terrible in clutch situations and he pulls his usual gutless loser routine again today so far (through 7).

Sign Mauer before you trade him, then use the money to get a starting pitcher and let Young/Gomez/Span figure it out.


That's basically what I was trying to say...only in a lot less harsh a manner.

Getting rid of Cuddyer's salary and getting back a halfway decent prospect would be a coup for this team because it would free us up to do a lot of other things.

I like Cuddyer (great off the field guy and I would guess a great lockerroom guy) but like I said the moment they signed him, the Twins would be a hell of a lot better off spending that money in other positions because corner outfielders are pretty much a dime a dozen in this league and they vastly overpaid for Cuddyer.

We could have gotten him for just as many years on almost a half of the money that they were paying him now if we would have signed him this last offseason as compared to two years ago.

...the problem is that we still owe him almost $10 million for next season and I doubt any team is willing to take on that kind of contract unless we do the deal around next years trading deadline. That's why I think it is more likely that Kubel is the guy that would get moved.

Although honestly it probably won't be either guy that gets traded and we head into next season with pretty much the same poor pitching staff and the same horrific infield that we have this year and we once again are just another "also ran" team despite having two of the top 10 players in the league in Morneau and Mauer on the team.

Fandango
08-13-2009, 07:56 PM
I am most interested in what the starting rotation will look like next season. The construction of the lineup doesn't hold as many surprises to me at this point, but I am curious what they will do with the starters.

Fandango
08-13-2009, 08:00 PM
Although honestly it probably won't be either guy that gets traded and we head into next season with pretty much the same poor pitching staff and the same horrific infield that we have this year and we once again are just another "also ran" team despite having two of the top 10 players in the league in Morneau and Mauer on the team.

Yup, that is the most likely scenario. If we want to compete we need to spend some money on pitching and at either SS or 2b. But I just don't see it happening.

ducky
08-13-2009, 08:05 PM
I am most interested in what the starting rotation will look like next season. The construction of the lineup doesn't hold as many surprises to me at this point, but I am curious what they will do with the starters.

What would you do???

Personally I have no idea who to trust and who not to anymore. Every single one of them have had decent moment filled in with a bunch of poor and mediocre starts.

That's why I probably wouldn't trade any of them (unless I could get something juicy for one of them) and would just add more pitchers and whoever is pitching the best can fill out the rotation.

Fandango
08-13-2009, 08:30 PM
What would you do??? Personally I have no idea who to trust and who not to anymore.

I feel the same way, which is why I am so curious about what will happen in the rotation....I just can't figure out from one week to the next who we can count on from the group.

Of course, you and I are thinking about the whole situation aggressively. Like can Manship assume a starting role so that we can trade Perkins or move him into the bullpen? Or, can we trade Blackburn or Baker right now for a near MLB ready infield prospect, and then sign a FA? Or can we keep Pavano, and then package Perkins and Mulvey for a prospect?

Those are the things that you and I would do, but most likely management will just go into the season with the same rotation that started this year (Baker/Liriano/Slowey/Blackburn/Perkins) . Then Swarzak and either Mulvey or Manship as our long relievers. The rest of the bullpen would be Nathan, Guerrier, Dickey, Neshek, and some lefty (most likely Mijares). I am done with Crain on the team.

In the end should all the same guys will still be on the team next year; Baker, Liriano, Slowey, and Blackburn will be in the rotation with one other guy, and that guy will either be Manship or Perkins or Swarzak.

PsychoViking
08-13-2009, 09:31 PM
Blackburn was close to being a #1 starter until Gardy decided to be a complete moron. What healthy starter wants 10 days off? He had a 2 ERA for the first half, then those idiots screwed with what worked.

Personally, I think both overrated idiots (Gardy, Smith) running this team need to be fired in the offseason.

I'd like to fire the terrible ownership group, too, but that will never happen. Unfortunately Carl taught his kids exactly how he loved to run a franchise. We MIGHT sign Mauer and then we'll cry about having no money left for anyone else, so it'll be the same old story about not signing any decent FAs.

I actually think there is a good chance that Mauer will not re-sign here. Not because of the money, but because of the terrible leadership in the ownership/front office. This is the ONLY hope that we have of signing a good FA or two. Even with the stadium they normally wouldn't, but they may be forced to because Mauer will hold it over their heads as leverage.

ducky
08-13-2009, 09:50 PM
I just hope that the Twins take a more aggressive approach to the rotation. I would LOVE to see them make a move for a guy who has the legit stuff to be an ace but I know that is highly unlikely.

We really do have some tradable parts like Revere, Ramos, and some pitching that could fill a lot of holes but would just further deplete a bottom heavy minor league system (they REALLY have to get their butts in gear and get Gibson signed). But I think with the M & M boys and Nathan's time already coming to an end on this team now is the time that you have to mortgage the future a little bit....and they do have the cash to do so with the new stadium approaching and the fact that attendance has been so strong this season even without the new stadium (next year they could have drawn 3 million fans easy if they wouldn't have made the park so damn small...as it is they will easily top 2.7 million).


In the end should they all still be on the team next year; Baker, Liriano, Slowey, and Blackburn will be in the rotation with one other guy. And that guy will either be Manship or Perkins or Swarzak.

Completely agree. I just hope it doesn't come to that. The Twin are too good of a team to head into the season with big question marks surrounding every single one of their starters.

ducky
08-13-2009, 09:58 PM
I actually think there is a good chance that Mauer will not re-sign here. Not because of the money, but because of the terrible leadership in the ownership/front office. This is the ONLY hope that we have of signing a good FA or two. Even with the stadium they normally wouldn't, but they may be forced to because Mauer will hold it over their heads as leverage.

Mauer is going to be a Twin for life.

It recently dawned on me that Mauer stands to lose more by signing with another team than the Twins would if he walked away from a legit contract offer.

Fan's would turn on him in a second if he took the Twins to the brink and then signed with the Yankees even if they offered millions more. We are a fickle bunch and certainly not immune to hating past (and present) players. And the terrible thought of getting booed in his hometown state is probably quite a bit of motivation for a person like Joe.

Not to mention he has a job for his entire life with the Twins where the Yankees would only give him a job for the next 10 years.

The Q
08-14-2009, 05:56 PM
Mauer is going to be a Twin for life.

It recently dawned on me that Mauer stands to lose more by signing with another team than the Twins would if he walked away from a legit contract offer.

Fan's would turn on him in a second if he took the Twins to the brink and then signed with the Yankees even if they offered millions more. We are a fickle bunch and certainly not immune to hating past (and present) players. And the terrible thought of getting booed in his hometown state is probably quite a bit of motivation for a person like Joe.

Not to mention he has a job for his entire life with the Twins where the Yankees would only give him a job for the next 10 years.

Yeah, i don't buy that crap for one second.

The Q
08-14-2009, 05:57 PM
Blackburn was close to being a #1 starter until Gardy decided to be a complete moron. What healthy starter wants 10 days off? He had a 2 ERA for the first half, then those idiots screwed with what worked.

Personally, I think both overrated idiots (Gardy, Smith) running this team need to be fired in the offseason.

I'd like to fire the terrible ownership group, too, but that will never happen. Unfortunately Carl taught his kids exactly how he loved to run a franchise. We MIGHT sign Mauer and then we'll cry about having no money left for anyone else, so it'll be the same old story about not signing any decent FAs.

I actually think there is a good chance that Mauer will not re-sign here. Not because of the money, but because of the terrible leadership in the ownership/front office. This is the ONLY hope that we have of signing a good FA or two. Even with the stadium they normally wouldn't, but they may be forced to because Mauer will hold it over their heads as leverage.

Blackburn was never close to a #1. His fall can be attributed to a regression to the mean.

PsychoViking
08-14-2009, 06:02 PM
Blackburn was never close to a #1. His fall can be attributed to a regression to the mean.

He might not be a #1 but he could be a solid #2. They screwed him up.

VikingFan2k2
08-14-2009, 06:30 PM
He might not be a #1 but he could be a solid #2. They screwed him up.

Sorry, I'm not going to buy into that, he has had 5 starts post break to work things out, but he is fading just like he did last year.

PsychoViking
08-14-2009, 06:55 PM
Sorry, I'm not going to buy into that, he has had 5 starts post break to work things out, but he is fading just like he did last year.

Well, I do, so suck it. :D

ducky
08-14-2009, 07:06 PM
Yeah, i don't buy that crap for one second.

Newsflash: Even though you might worship them, baseball players are in fact just human beings with a lot of the same emotions that we have.

...and like I said...if Mauer leaves a comparable contract offer from the Twins on the table to sign with the Yankess, he will be HATED here by the majority of people. That will play a role in his decision. And if you don't believe that, you just don't understand human behavior.

...and also like I said that the Twins will give Mauer a job for life whereas the Yankees will employ him only for the next 10 years. The number of Twins players still getting money from the team is quite large.

The Q
08-14-2009, 07:40 PM
Newsflash: Even though you might worship them, baseball players are in fact just human beings with a lot of the same emotions that we have.

...and like I said...if Mauer leaves a comparable contract offer from the Twins on the table to sign with the Yankess, he will be HATED here by the majority of people. That will play a role in his decision. And if you don't believe that, you just don't understand human behavior.

...and also like I said that the Twins will give Mauer a job for life whereas the Yankees will employ him only for the next 10 years. The number of Twins players still getting money from the team is quite large.

If you really think that it's so much to lose, you overvalue that sh*t. It's the same thing with LeBron, these are grown men. Both shouldn't be acting like children when it comes to FA.

9ERS4EVA
08-14-2009, 08:06 PM
While I don't doubt the Yankees would make an offer for Mauer I imagine Boston will be making the much bigger push as they have a much larger need for Mauer going forward.

ducky
08-14-2009, 08:15 PM
If you really think that it's so much to lose, you overvalue that sh*t. It's the same thing with LeBron, these are grown men. Both shouldn't be acting like children when it comes to FA.

Letting money being the sole decider is more child-like than actually weighing all your options realistically and making the decision based on what is going to make each player the happiest long term.

ducky
08-14-2009, 08:26 PM
While I don't doubt the Yankees would make an offer for Mauer I imagine Boston will be making the much bigger push as they have a much larger need for Mauer going forward.

You don't think Victor is the long term answer there??? He might not be great defensively but I've always thought he handled Cleveland's staff well. And guy is a STUD at the dish.

I will not miss him in the AL Central that is for sure. Has any division ever lost as much talent in a 2 years span as the AL central has lost in the last 2 years or so??? In that sense Mauer leaving would make sense (and make this division even worse than it is now....which is hard to do considering how piss poor it is).

9ERS4EVA
08-14-2009, 09:06 PM
You don't think Victor is the long term answer there??? He might not be great defensively but I've always thought he handled Cleveland's staff well. And guy is a STUD at the dish.

I will not miss him in the AL Central that is for sure. Has any division ever lost as much talent in a 2 years span as the AL central has lost in the last 2 years or so??? In that sense Mauer leaving would make sense (and make this division even worse than it is now....which is hard to do considering how piss poor it is).

I don't think Victor will ever be a full time Catcher again in his career. So No I don't. I think they'd be very likely to make Mauer a huge offer.

That being said, he's re-signing with Minnesota.

ducky
08-14-2009, 09:20 PM
That being said, he's re-signing with Minnesota.

Yep....and if they don't we will know by the begining of next year because the Twins will trade him before they let him walk away.

PsychoViking
08-14-2009, 10:10 PM
Yep....and if they don't we will know by the begining of next year because the Twins will trade him before they let him walk away.

You really think Bill Smith can pull that off? I doubt it.

The Q
08-15-2009, 02:20 AM
Letting money being the sole decider is more child-like than actually weighing all your options realistically and making the decision based on what is going to make each player the happiest long term.

What planet do you live on?

On this planet money talks.

Getting his wittle feewings hurt is significantly more childish. Not even close.

Nastradamus
08-15-2009, 05:29 AM
Newsflash: Even though you might worship them, baseball players are in fact just human beings with a lot of the same emotions that we have.

...and like I said...if Mauer leaves a comparable contract offer from the Twins on the table to sign with the Yankess, he will be HATED here by the majority of people. That will play a role in his decision. And if you don't believe that, you just don't understand human behavior.

...and also like I said that the Twins will give Mauer a job for life whereas the Yankees will employ him only for the next 10 years. The number of Twins players still getting money from the team is quite large.

Mauer has given that state a lot as it is. I hardly think he deserves to be hated if he decides to leave. That 5 or 6 year period is the only chance in his life he will have to make around 100 million dollars in such a time. I think pretty much all of us would be willing to suck it up and take a job we considered selling out if we could become make enough money to set our families up for generations. If you are talking NYY offering 20 and you are offering 18 or 19 and maybe even a year less guaranteed, no way Mauer leaves and here, your statements apply. If you are talking the Yanks offering 20-25 when Minnesota is offering 15(can they offer more IYO?) you are talking about passing up a whole lot of money. Let me tell you, its a lot easier to tell Joe Mauer to pass up 30-50 million dollars than it would be to do it yourself.

Don't think the Yanks won't come with the checkbook either. He's the type of clean cut, true leader and professional that the Yankees have historically built around. I mean try to, horrible as it may sound, put yourself inside a Yankee fan's head for a second. Now imagine how perfect Mauer looks in pinstripes. I hate the Yankees, but this is just my unbiased opinion of how it could very likely go down. Its what they do.
Their long time catcher will also be ending his contract/career around then. Jeter, their captain, will also be closing up his career soon. They could use a good guy to root for to take the focus off of A-Rod. They will have been making millions off of that new stadium for a couple of years as well. I think they will pull out all the stops for Mauer personally. He may sign early, but if the Yanks want Mauer, you better believe his agent will be made aware what kind of money they are willing to spend to get him. I would assume he could make plenty more in endorsements in NY as well, so we are talking even more money.

Also, ftr, Mauer will have a job with the Twins when he retires if he wants it, trust me. If surprisingly they are stubborn about it, the Yanks will be more than happy to give him a job for life.

Nastradamus
08-15-2009, 05:31 AM
You don't think Victor is the long term answer there??? He might not be great defensively but I've always thought he handled Cleveland's staff well. And guy is a STUD at the dish.

I will not miss him in the AL Central that is for sure. Has any division ever lost as much talent in a 2 years span as the AL central has lost in the last 2 years or so??? In that sense Mauer leaving would make sense (and make this division even worse than it is now....which is hard to do considering how piss poor it is).

Victor is aging and is not a C for more than a year or 2 and even that should be part time. 100 games tops. I think Boston will have found a C by the time Mauer is available though.

VikingFan2k2
08-15-2009, 07:06 AM
Victor is aging and is not a C for more than a year or 2 and even that should be part time. 100 games tops. I think Boston will have found a C by the time Mauer is available though.

So what makes you think that the Yankees won't have found a C by the time Mauer becomes available?

I suppose they could be gunning for him, but that's assuming that the Twins won't make Mauer an offer he can't refuse.

Fandango
08-17-2009, 02:47 PM
Both the Yanks and Sox will bid for Mauer if he becomes a FA, regardless of who they have at C, because Joe also could develop into a first baseman, and is a good enough hitter to be a full-time DH as well.

But I think that the Twins will give him a good contract offer this offseason, and that he will stay with the team. Joe would prefer to be in MN (for good reason) but he isn't going to play for free; so if they give him a fair offer (which is more than $15 million per), I think that he resigns.

ducky
08-17-2009, 03:52 PM
Mauer has given that state a lot as it is. I hardly think he deserves to be hated if he decides to leave. That 5 or 6 year period is the only chance in his life he will have to make around 100 million dollars in such a time. I think pretty much all of us would be willing to suck it up and take a job we considered selling out if we could become make enough money to set our families up for generations. If you are talking NYY offering 20 and you are offering 18 or 19 and maybe even a year less guaranteed, no way Mauer leaves and here, your statements apply. If you are talking the Yanks offering 20-25 when Minnesota is offering 15(can they offer more IYO?) you are talking about passing up a whole lot of money. Let me tell you, its a lot easier to tell Joe Mauer to pass up 30-50 million dollars than it would be to do it yourself.


Yeah if the Twins lowball him like they did with Santana than yes he should absolutely move on. But I don't think they will. The Twins made the Hunter and Santana "offers" knowing full well that there was no way that those guys where going to sign those contracts and only did it to appease fans who don't understand anything about baseball contracts. They were so far below market value that the Twins knew that the players wouldn't sign. They (hopefully) won't do that with Mauer.

If the Twins don't offer him right out of the gates at the very least, 7 years and a $150 million (that's a hometown discount btw and only the beginning point of the negotiations) then Mauer should rightfully walk away from the team and you can't blame him for doing so (and he will be traded in a years time if they cant come to an agreement). If they start out by insulting him with well below market value contracts like they did with Santana then the FO of the Twins should be fired.

....and yes the Twins can afford to sign Mauer to a contract that will pay him abound $22-$24 million annually. Their payroll over the next couple years with the new stadium should easily start to exceed $85 million and really should start to approach $100 million soon. Will it limit what the Twins can do with other players??? Of course. But that's what top players are worth and they will have to work around it and not sign as many contracts like the Cuddyer and Punto contracts (and that is why those two contract expire the exact year that Mauer is due for his pay raises).

Fandango
08-17-2009, 04:18 PM
If the Twins don't make Mauer a competitive offer, and I think the 7/$150 million offer ducky mentioned is in the right ball park, they are really stupid. Mauer is a person just like anyone else, and if the Twins don't come to bat with a good offer, and another team has one on the table that gives him $60 million more over the life of his contract, then yes he should sign with them. Just like with what A-rod did, he was offered (I believe) $70 million more by the Rangers than by any other team, of course he should take it.

This situation cannot really be compared the Lebron scenario though. The reason being is that that Cavs can pay more money to Lebron than any other team, and they will pay more than any other team. Therefore, if Lebron leaves more money on the table from the Cavs, he should be the focus of the anger of the fans not the Cavs. However, if the Twins refuse to make Joe a competitive offer the team should be the focus of anger, not Joe.

ducky
08-17-2009, 04:53 PM
A big day for the Twins. 1st one to post that the Twins came to an agreement with Gibson gets a gold star.

Fandango
08-17-2009, 06:18 PM
ducky, I haven't seen/heard any sources reporting that they signed Gibson yet, where did you see that?

9ERS4EVA
08-17-2009, 06:28 PM
If the Twins don't make Mauer a competitive offer, and I think the 7/$150 million offer ducky mentioned is in the right ball park, they are really stupid. Mauer is a person just like anyone else, and if the Twins don't come to bat with a good offer, and another team has one on the table that gives him $60 million more over the life of his contract, then yes he should sign with them. Just like with what A-rod did, he was offered (I believe) $70 million more by the Rangers than by any other team, of course he should take it.

This situation cannot really be compared the Lebron scenario though. The reason being is that that Cavs can pay more money to Lebron than any other team, and they will pay more than any other team. Therefore, if Lebron leaves more money on the table from the Cavs, he should be the focus of the anger of the fans not the Cavs. However, if the Twins refuse to make Joe a competitive offer the team should be the focus of anger, not Joe.

It's also easier to be marketed in the NBA then it is in major league baseball. One player impacts the game at a much larger scale in the NBA.

The marketing potential for Lebron is higher in NY then Cleveland because of this.

Nastradamus
08-17-2009, 06:40 PM
So what makes you think that the Yankees won't have found a C by the time Mauer becomes available?

I suppose they could be gunning for him, but that's assuming that the Twins won't make Mauer an offer he can't refuse.

I think Posada has a year or 2 left. They signed him up to a pretty good sized deal.

Fandango
08-17-2009, 06:41 PM
The marketing potential for Lebron is higher in NY then Cleveland because of this.

I actually disagree completely.

From a marketing perspective between Mauer and Lebron, Mauer would benefit much more from a move to NY/BOS/LA/Chicago than Lebron would. It really isn't even comparable. Lebron is already one of the top 10 most recognizable athletes in the world (and he hasn't even hit his prime yet) despite the fact that he has been laboring away in the tiny village of Cleveland. He has huge national endorsement deals with everyone, and gets as much exposure any athlete in the country.

The same cannot be said of Mauer, who could pick up a large number of endorsements by moving to a bigger market where his visibility amongst the public would be increased immensely. I think that is probably they way Joe likes it though; he doesn't really love the spotlight like some other athletes and he isn't out there to make himself into a "brand name".

9ERS4EVA
08-17-2009, 06:52 PM
I actually disagree completely.

From a marketing perspective between Mauer and Lebron, Mauer would benefit much more from a move to NY/BOS/LA/Chicago than Lebron would. It really isn't even comparable. Lebron is already one of the top 10 most recognizable athletes in the world (and he hasn't even hit his prime yet) despite the fact that he has been laboring away in the tiny village of Cleveland. He has huge national endorsement deals with everyone, and gets as much exposure any athlete in the country.

The same cannot be said of Mauer, who could pick up a large number of endorsements by moving to a bigger market where his visibility amongst the public would be increased immensely. I think that is probably they way Joe likes it though; he doesn't really love the spotlight like some other athletes and he isn't out there to make himself into a "brand name".

Yah he probably could pick up other endorsements but at the end of the day he's never gonna be a huge marketability guy no matter where he goes. LeBron will because the top basketball players are huge stars. Individual baseball players really can't compare to that no matter how good they are.

Albert Pujols is nowhere near as marketed as Lebron, Kobe, D Wade or Melo. He wouldn't be even if he was in LA or NYC either.

PsychoViking
08-17-2009, 06:55 PM
A big day for the Twins. 1st one to post that the Twins came to an agreement with Gibson gets a gold star.

Twins came to an agreement with Gibson.














You didn't say it had to be true.

How do I get my gold star? :)

ducky
08-17-2009, 07:41 PM
Twins came to an agreement with Gibson.














You didn't say it had to be true.

How do I get my gold star? :)



No. You get ten lashes with a yard stick.

VikingFan2k2
08-18-2009, 03:37 AM
To top off another bad outing by your Twins, specifically Liriano...

Morneau leaves because he's dizzy... give me a break, you're a HOCKEY player, suck it up, take some dramamine and get back out there.

Joe Christianson Twitter:

"JoeCStarTribune: Syracuse scored 12 in 9th vs. AAA Roch tonight, with Slama and Delaney giving up most of the damage. Those are the saviors?"

And only 30 minutes left on Gibson...

Can this get any worse?

The Q
08-18-2009, 03:48 AM
Gibson officially signs for 1.8 mil.

VikingFan2k2
08-18-2009, 04:05 AM
Good news, can he pitch tomorrow?

Liriano to the DL with a "tired arm", again the Twins making an excuse for a player who just flat out sucks.

Phil Humber will be brought up to replace him, we need him too as this bullpen is absolutely burned out.

ducky
08-18-2009, 02:09 PM
September and the extra arms and players that it provides can't get here quick enough for this team.

Twins should get Dickey back up here and have him give up the thought of starting (that is what he is down in AAA doing...and predictably sucking at it).

They really have to start watching the arms of the guys that will be back with this team next season. No reason to weaken an arm in the bullpen chasing down a victory in this bust of a season.

ducky
08-18-2009, 02:13 PM
Gibson officially signs for 1.8 mil.

Q gets the gold star.

Good news. This is one of those situations where the Twins needed to break with their "not above slot" position on the draft to help the team in the long run. Good to see the FO is at least a little flexable.

Fandango
08-18-2009, 02:19 PM
I was extremely relieved to wake up and find that Gibson had signed with the Twins. It would have been a big loss to the organization to not bring him into the fold. If he progresses as quickly as everyone seems to he is capable of, we could see him on the major league roster in a couple years. Good job Twins front office, I am glad they showed some flexibility in this situation!

PsychoViking
08-18-2009, 02:21 PM
September and the extra arms and players that it provides can't get here quick enough for this team.

Twins should get Dickey back up here and have him give up the thought of starting (that is what he is down in AAA doing...and predictably sucking at it).

They really have to start watching the arms of the guys that will be back with this team next season. No reason to weaken an arm in the bullpen chasing down a victory in this bust of a season.

Dickey sucked before being sent down and is sucking while starting at AAA. There is a reason for that. He lost whatever he had. I wouldn't call him up until he fixes it.

ducky
08-18-2009, 02:32 PM
Dickey sucked before being sent down and is sucking while starting at AAA. There is a reason for that. He lost whatever he had. I wouldn't call him up until he fixes it.

What's he going to do...lose us a game??? With the way the starting staff has completely broken down, the Twins need to get over the fact that they still mathmatically could win the division this season and face reality that the season is over and start protecting the arms of the guys that will be pitching for us next season so they don't break down next year when it might actually matter.

We are 6 games below 500 in the middle of August. Winning is not the most important thing for this season any longer.

PsychoViking
08-18-2009, 03:04 PM
What's he going to do...lose us a game??? With the way the starting staff has completely broken down, the Twins need to get over the fact that they still mathmatically could win the division this season and face reality that the season is over and start protecting the arms of the guys that will be pitching for us next season so they don't break down next year when it might actually matter.

We are 6 games below 500 in the middle of August. Winning is not the most important thing for this season any longer.

A guy who can't anyone out is not going to save innings on arms.