Trading Deadline Rumor Mill

[SuperHawks]

If you hear any rumors on potential deals in your neck of the woods, let us know. I always like hearing all the rumors, but it seems like you have to pay money to get the inside info from espn and other sites.

Any rumor that you hear on your local sportstalk show or television station would be what we are looking for in particular, but anything you get is welcomed.

[Donkeypuncher]

Jocketty is saying the Cards probably won't make a move, but he always says that. Then they get a McGwire, Rolen, Will Clark, Larry Walker, etc. They'll probably get someone around August, but hopefully no one too old. The 3 starting OFs are already well over 100 years old.

[joeyss76]

Roger Clemens to the white sox has been rumored the last couple of weeks

[TxFootballFan]

Clemens is not going anywhere.

Unless a team comes up with a Herschel Walker trade proposal and offers it to Houston, Drayton McClane won't even start to consider it.

He knows that Clemens is the biggest reason people are going to the park to watch that team. And he knows how pissed people were when Nolan Ryan left the team and had success with the Rangers. McClane worries more about PR than he does the team's success sometimes.

Clemens is not going anywhere.

[UK_Niners_fan]

All kinds of rumours are abound with Jason Schmidt. The White Sox, Red Sox, Orioles and Nationals have all rumoured interest. Personally, I would want a big prospect plus young pitching in return for Schmidt, but if someone blows Sabean's doors off with an offer, the Giants should take it. Indeed, I've read on a Giants weblog of one possible offer packaging Schmidt and Omar Vizquel to the ChiSox with guys like Brandon McCarthy coming the other way.

[ThinMan]

The Pirates are reportedly looking to give Jose Mesa to anyone silly enough to take him.

They're shopping Matt Lawton and Mark Redman, as well. Heard Lawton's name mentioned in connection with several teams (Braves, Cubs, Yankees to name a couple).

[MMinton]

The Red Sox traded INF Ramon Vazquez for INF Alex Cora last night. Cora's the better player, but is basically guaranteed 1.3M this year and 1.4M next season, so it was a bit of a salary dump for the Indians. Cora might find himself in the position to take some time from MArk Bellhorn if Bellhorn continues to struggle, but for now he'll serve as the UTIL INF.

Also, The Providence Journal reported this morning that Jay Payton will be shipped to OAKtown for RHP Chad Bradford, soon to be off of the DL. Payton was DFA'd for causing a problem during a pinch hitting situation, and will be shipped out shortly after the all-star break. Bradford should help the backend of a bullpen that badly needs it.

The only arms Terry Francona has confidence left in are Mike Timlin, Alan Embree (for some strange reason) and Mike Myers. Matt Mantei is likely out for the season, so Bradford will probably step in for his role. I would expect another RHRP to be added for the back end of the pen (Danys Baez, perhaps) before the trade deadline passes. There are also a number of reports Kevin Millar isn't happy, and could likely be moved, so it wouldn't surprise me to see a 1B added. A RH OF to platoon with Trot Nixon is now also necessary, and rumors of Gabe Kapler coming back from Japan persist.

[The Q]

Clemens is not going anywhere.

Unless a team comes up with a Herschel Walker trade proposal and offers it to Houston, Drayton McClane won't even start to consider it.

He knows that Clemens is the biggest reason people are going to the park to watch that team. And he knows how pissed people were when Nolan Ryan left the team and had success with the Rangers. McClane worries more about PR than he does the team's success sometimes.

Clemens is not going anywhere.

AGreed. If anything the AStros shoudl ADD a power hitting OF (Adam Dunn) AND get a middle reliever or two. McClane needs to realize he's got this one year window left to get to the WS. I would seriously drain the farm system if it meant getting there. With that starting pitching, they're VERY dangrous in a short series.

[Hurricane]

Every single player making any money whatsoever on a team not likely to be in the penant race will at some point or another be rumored to be heading to the Yankees.

At least two of those rumors will be proven correct.

[MDPatFan]

The Pirates are reportedly looking to give Jose Mesa to anyone silly enough to take him.

I'd trade Sammy Sosa to bring "Joe Table" back to the birds.

[Draft Crazy]

Preston Wilson or Mark Kotsay to the Yankees.

[Bishop]

Actually Preston Wilson to the Washington Nationals for Zach Day, SP and some prospects seem bang on...

[Bishop]

Link for Preston Wilson (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=fanball-rockieswilsontradeto&prov=fanball&type=lgns) trade...

[dasher]

Yankees are trading A-Rod for Garth Brooks

[WeatherMike]

Actually Preston Wilson to the Washington Nationals for Zach Day, SP and some prospects seem bang on...
I know the link said so, but it's Day and outfielder J.J Davis.

I don't like this trade. From a value standpoint, it's not bad, as Davis is next to worthless and Day seems to be on his way out of town anyway. But take a look at Wilson's numbers this season, please (I'm too lazy to dig them up again, just do it yourself or take my word for it).

It worries me that if the team acquires Wilson, that the fact that he's a new addition with a fairly big name will get him lots of playing time over Ryan Church, one of the top NL rookies who is about to come off a brief DL stint. Plus, I am a big fan of defense up the middle, and while Wilkerson (who is currently in center) doesn't have great range and would be best served with the resultant move to left field, Wilson's range is worse.

While their statistical rankings say otherwise, given the lack of quality hitters on the market, the Nationals would be best served to hang on to Day and try to use him and someone else to pursue a reliever like Eddie Guardado to shore up their overtaxed bullpen.

If this trade goes through, I hope it's because Church will be out for a long time or because he isn't really as good as he is playing, but I don't think either to be the case. Even if they used Wilson in a reserve manner and kept Church in the lineup, he isn't really much better than Marlon Byrd, who he would be replacing, and the loss of that trade bait would offset any upgrade there.

Let's hope Wilson nixes the deal because he doesn't want to play in center or the teams can't agree on the finances.

[Outshined_One]

Depending on who you ask, the Cubs are either buyers or sellers.

The buyers crowd will refer to rumors that the Cubs have interest in Preston Wilson, Mark Kotsay, Adam Dunn, various KC relievers, Austin Kearns, Dannys Baez, and Aubrey Huff.

The Cubs have plenty of prospects ranging from C+ to about B+ level. Lots of starting pitchers who likely won't be aces, but plenty of guys who have futures as 3/4 starters or effective relievers. Their hitting prospects are much more intriguing, with guys like CF Felix Pie, 1B Brian Dopirak, and RF Ryan Harvey receiving plenty of hype around baseball. Pie's probably the crown jewel of the system right now and just starting to scratch the surface. Dopirak has monstrous power, although his production this season has been well below expectations. Harvey is still developing down in low A, but he's showcasing terrific power, a nice arm, improving patience, and surprising speed on the basepaths.

The Cubs have the ammunition to make a blockbuster trade. However, given their recent collapse, there's the other crowd...

The sellers crowd will tell you they're going to try and ship off guys like Corey Patterson, Glendon Rusch, Greg Maddux, Todd Walker, Jeromy Burnitz, Mike Remlinger, and Todd Hollandsworth.

These players all have potential benefits for any contending team. I grant you, it's unlikely any of them will net a top-notch prospect, but some of these guys will definitely be of interest to various teams.

Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Lee, and Ramirez almost certainly going to be staying in Chicago. Wood's got a no trade clause and apparently loves it in Chicago, so even if the Cubs wanted to ship him off, he might nix it. Prior and Zambrano are both cheap, young, incredibly productive, and still haven't reached their ceilings. Ramirez is a premier player at a premium position. Trading Lee would probably cause most Cubs fans to take up arms and storm the Tribune Tower, given the season he's been having.

If you want my personal opinion, I think right now they won't sell just for the sake of selling. They likely also won't go out and splurge on a guy like Preston Wilson in a panic move. If they make a trade, my gut tells me it won't be for a rental. It'll be for a guy who will be with the team for the foreseeable future.

[Hurricane]

Just throwing names against a wall, to see which ones might stick.

- Billy Wagner. Gotta figure the Phils aren't in the race. No ace, their star 1B has done nothing, and they have a chance to build something good for the future with Madson as their closer.

- Cory Koskie? When he's healthy, seems like the Jays would be smart to move him and give Hill the job.

- Todd Helton. Giambi is starting to hit at the wrong time for a Helton to the Yankees trade. Hard to imagine any other team taking on that contract, though maybe the Orioles would bite.

- Raul Ibanez. Randy Winn. Ron Villone, Eddie Guardado. Mariners aren't winning anything this year. But they aren't getting a frontline starter with those names. But they have to go and get something. Seems like they could use a catcher.

- AJ Burnett. Hard to believe the Marlins are 7 out. That's a good arm if he's really on the market.

- Aubrey Huff. Finally hitting a little. Probably goes to the Braves.

- Kyle Farnsworth, Dmitri Young. Tigers are out of the race. Those are two guys they can move for help for next year.

- Mike Sweeney. Who the hell wants him.

- Cliff Floyd. Piazza. Cameron. I think Cameron ends up across town, one way or another.

- Sean Casey. Anyone have a need for a .300-hitting 1B who can't drive in runs? Jr. Griffey. Randa.

- Mackowiak. Someone would bite on a utility guy like this.

- Alou. A team in need of a bat could do worse.

[TxFootballFan]

- Mike Sweeney. Who the hell wants him.

.



Isn't Sweeney dragging a pretty big contract around with him?

[MMinton]

I personally think of the Red Sox could dump Kevin Millar and the prorated amount of the 3.5mm he was due this year, along with a couple of mediocre prospects, they might be willing to bite on Mike Sweeney and perhaps a toss-in of Scott Sullivan (though I have no idea if he's healthy). Sweeney would provide a LT fix at 1B, get the incumbent out of town, and upgrade the offense.

Also, speaking of the Royals, I think they have a couple of useful assets that allard baird could pawn off on someone, like he always does. Jose Lima might garner a very questionable prospect for someone hoping he can turn it around, and along with Sweeney, both Matt Stairs and Emil Brown should be able to fetch something tradewise. Brown, especially, being how cheap he is, would be a good addition for someone looking for a platoon type 4th OF.

[Hurricane]

I think Sweeney may be just about the only player the Sox could get who'd be a downgrade at 1B, defensively. And with is injury history, it's way too big a risk.

I'd actually prefer if they went and got Casey and his weak-ass singles bat. But I can live with a .320 hitter at 1B in this lineup, even if he can't hit it out. And in the vast Fenway rightfield, I think he'll really thrive. He'd make a pretty decent #5 hitter in that lineup, IMO, as a LH hitter between Manny and Varitek, followed by Nixon. The guy is hitting .350 against lefties, and the Sox have really struggled against lefties. So it might be a good match.

I really don't understand the lack of RBIs.

He's hitting .333 with RISP/2Outs. .324 with runners on. .667 with the bases loaded. .333 in late inning pressure situations with runners on base. I guess all you can really gleam from all that is the Reds leadoff hitters haven't gotten the job done.

He's also the anti-Millar. He doesn't strike out much.

If the Sox could get Casey and Weathers together, maybe they'd give up a Jon Lester or Anibel Sanchez. The demand for Weathers especially is probably high.

[Fandango]

I would talk about the Twins possiblities, but really there is no chance they make a move for even a somewhat big name player. It is frustrating somewhat because we never really improve ourselves much at all around the deadline, but at the same time I am happy that they are trading away the future stars in AAA for a has been player.

[Outshined_One]

- Todd Helton. Giambi is starting to hit at the wrong time for a Helton to the Yankees trade. Hard to imagine any other team taking on that contract, though maybe the Orioles would bite.

- Mackowiak. Someone would bite on a utility guy like this.

These are the only two I disagree with of your list. Helton's contract is pretty bad as it is, but I don't think the Rockies are chomping at the bit to trade him. He's the only guy on that team who is a known name and commodity and is pretty much the face of that franchise. It'll take plenty of quality prospects and cheap players to get him, imo. I don't think the Yankees or Orioles have much of either.

As for Mackowiak, he's still cheap. The Pirates aren't going to give him up for pennies.

[Hurricane]

These are the only two I disagree with of your list. Helton's contract is pretty bad as it is, but I don't think the Rockies are chomping at the bit to trade him. He's the only guy on that team who is a known name and commodity and is pretty much the face of that franchise. It'll take plenty of quality prospects and cheap players to get him, imo. I don't think the Yankees or Orioles have much of either.

As for Mackowiak, he's still cheap. The Pirates aren't going to give him up for pennies.
Probably right on both accounts. Though I still think Helton's contract makes him more untradeable then him being the face of the Rockies.

[jdlewis]

These are the only two I disagree with of your list. Helton's contract is pretty bad as it is, but I don't think the Rockies are chomping at the bit to trade him. He's the only guy on that team who is a known name and commodity and is pretty much the face of that franchise. It'll take plenty of quality prospects and cheap players to get him, imo. I don't think the Yankees or Orioles have much of either.

As for Mackowiak, he's still cheap. The Pirates aren't going to give him up for pennies.

Yeah, but everyday that goes by only makes you question just how right that reporter was that Helton was using... the guy is suddenly... and I mean SUDDENLY on pace for just 19HRs after 6 straight seasons above 30HRs... he's hitting just .248 on the road...after hitting .326 last year and .324 the year before that. The guy is ONLY 31 years old!

Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMm

Who would really want Helton at this point? with serious questions surrounding the validity of his former numbers and a vastly bloated contract.


But, there is seriously alot of players suddenly dropping way below their career averages this year... really makes you think huh? It's possible are just having down years, but more than a handful are guys really falling off the planet due to lack of being able to use what they were.

[Hurricane]

Bill James did an examination, and found that HR are on the same pace this year as every other year. So it makes you wonder if this was all over almost nothing.

Helton is on a bit of a hot streak right now.

But I agree nobody really wants him for that money at this point.

[Outshined_One]

Todd Helton Career IsoP: 271
Todd Helton 2005 IsoP: 186

Todd Helton Career IsoD: 95
Todd Helton 2005 IsoD: 126

IsoP is isolated power (SLG - AVG), which typically is a pretty good metric for measuring a guy's power. IsoD is isolated discipline (OBP - AVG), which will give you a really good idea as to what kind of patience a guy has.

Helton's numbers are down in the power department, but he's taking a lot more walks than he has been in the past. Also, that lineup he is hitting in is absolutely putrid. Today he hit third, in front of Preston Wilson, who has been having his share of issues this season. The two guys in front of him have OBPs of .329 and .303, meaning they're not getting on base at much of a clip this season.

My gut's telling me pitchers are now pitching around Helton since he's the only really consistent offensive threat in that lineup. He's clearly being walked a lot more this season than he has been in his career. He never struck me as a likely candidate to be using steroids to begin with.

In all honesty, I think he misses Larry Walker more than some people realize.

[dilbert719]

Just throwing names against a wall, to see which ones might stick.

- Billy Wagner. Gotta figure the Phils aren't in the race. No ace, their star 1B has done nothing, and they have a chance to build something good for the future with Madson as their closer.

Madson in the far future. Near future, we have Urbina, who sucks pitching setup but is a hell of a closer when he's on.

I have no idea what the Phils will do (knowing Wade, he'll rob our farm system again for an 86 year old middle reliever with a 6.64 ERA), but my hope and prayer is the Phils make an aggressive move to send Wagner to the Red Sox, if they'll take him (and considering that'll let them put Schilling back in the rotation, and give them two sick closers if all works out, why not?) in a deal that will bring the Phils Kevin Youkilis and Kelly Shoppach. Philly needs a catcher, so they can get rid of Lieberthal (who's dead money and a dead bat sitting where we need some talent) and David Bell (who's good enough, but for how long?)

I'd also like to see the Phils at least consider trading Jim Thome. I love the guy, and think he's great when he's on, but he's the present. This team's present is in the toilet. As a result, we need to look to the future, Ryan Howard. Howard's currently having a better season than Thome is, with less than 1/3 the ABs. Why not give him the chance?

If the Phils did this, next year they could be looking at:

Burrell - Lofton - Abreu
(Michaels/Chavez)

Youkilis - Rollins - Utley - Howard (The infield for the next 7 or 8 years, if they do it right)
(Perez - Martinez)

Shoppach/Pratt (maybe Rudy Jaramillo)

and Lieber, Wolf, Myers, Gavin Floyd, and Cory Lidle, with a bullpen of

4 interchangeable parts, Madson, someone, and Urbina.

In short, all the Phils' money needs to go to getting us some damn pitching, and possibly towards moving Padilla to the bullpen, where he won't have to think so much. He can just go pitch and be nasty and not screw up so much.

[Hurricane]

I think the Sox would absolutely cream themselves if they could get Wagner for Shoppach and Youkilis. I definitely like Youkilis, but I don't see him as an everyday starter. He's the Lou Merloni of the Sox. With a little more power, and probably better 3B defense.

Realistically, I think the Phils will want one of the Sox Big Four (Hanley, Papelbon, Lester, Sanchez), and I think the Sox won't deal those guys. Probably won't deal Pedroia either.

I think Thome is an even bigger disaster than Helton this year. I doubt anyone would take him unless they eat that contract in the process.

[Viks Fanatic]

I really don't understand the lack of RBIs.

He's hitting .333 with RISP/2Outs. .324 with runners on. .667 with the bases loaded. .333 in late inning pressure situations with runners on base. I guess all you can really gleam from all that is the Reds leadoff hitters haven't gotten the job done.

He plays for Cincinatti............ He plays for Cincinatti.............He plays for Cincinatti.......... HR or nothing therefore nobody is ever on for him with risp. If anybody is on 1st he will just GIDP so basically if he is up its a base hit or gidp........ He would make an exceptional 5 hitter thou with your lineup just make it downright fierce.

[Hurricane]

He plays for Cincinatti............ He plays for Cincinatti.............He plays for Cincinatti.......... HR or nothing therefore nobody is ever on for him with risp. If anybody is on 1st he will just GIDP so basically if he is up its a base hit or gidp........ He would make an exceptional 5 hitter thou with your lineup just make it downright fierce.
Felipe Lopez has been their leadoff hitter since May, and is hitting .304, and his OBP is a very respectable .350. So at least 1/3 of the time Casey is at the plate, someone is on base.

I suspect the problem is that Lopez is on first and Casey hits a single and sends Lopez to 3rd, at which point Adam Dunn either hits a home run or strikes out.

[twolvesguy]

- Mike Sweeney. Who the hell wants him.

Oh, I'd LOVE to see the Twins swing a deal to aquire Mike Sweeney. He'd be absolutely perfect for the middle of the Twins batting order. Power hitter, who hits for average.

Absolutely killed the Twins this weekend. 11-14 with 3 HR's. :o

[dilbert719]

I think the Sox would absolutely cream themselves if they could get Wagner for Shoppach and Youkilis. I definitely like Youkilis, but I don't see him as an everyday starter. He's the Lou Merloni of the Sox. With a little more power, and probably better 3B defense.

Realistically, I think the Phils will want one of the Sox Big Four (Hanley, Papelbon, Lester, Sanchez), and I think the Sox won't deal those guys. Probably won't deal Pedroia either.

I think Thome is an even bigger disaster than Helton this year. I doubt anyone would take him unless they eat that contract in the process.

I dunno about the others, but the Phils likely wouldn't want Hanley, since he and Rollins both play SS. We probably couldn't actually use him, and would then have to trade someone off.

And I wasn't exactly thinking Wagner for just Youkilis and Shoppach. Those were just the two I knew would be of use to us.

[jdlewis]

Todd Helton Career IsoP: 271
Todd Helton 2005 IsoP: 186

Todd Helton Career IsoD: 95
Todd Helton 2005 IsoD: 126

IsoP is isolated power (SLG - AVG), which typically is a pretty good metric for measuring a guy's power. IsoD is isolated discipline (OBP - AVG), which will give you a really good idea as to what kind of patience a guy has.

Helton's numbers are down in the power department, but he's taking a lot more walks than he has been in the past. Also, that lineup he is hitting in is absolutely putrid. Today he hit third, in front of Preston Wilson, who has been having his share of issues this season. The two guys in front of him have OBPs of .329 and .303, meaning they're not getting on base at much of a clip this season.

My gut's telling me pitchers are now pitching around Helton since he's the only really consistent offensive threat in that lineup. He's clearly being walked a lot more this season than he has been in his career. He never struck me as a likely candidate to be using steroids to begin with.

In all honesty, I think he misses Larry Walker more than some people realize.


Walker missed alot of time as did WIlson and it never really bothered Helton before, he put up those numbers on bad teams and he hasn't even been the best offensive player in that lineup... he isn't walking more he is actually on pace for less walks than last year, 61 walks in 302ABs, 85games this year, he walked 121 times last year in 547ABs, 154games. However, his Strikeouts are WAAAYYYY up.. he has almost as many K's as all of last year or the year before. He's not physically hurt. The fact the lineup isn't as good this year is probably more a reflection of his poor perfomance as everyone else is pretty on par in their base numbers with their last years performance, even when Clint Barnes was tearing it up, Helton was actually playing worse. I don't think that argument holds alot of merit... something is different that's for sure, none can say for sure, but he has been accused before, and implicitly through his former manager who 'supposedly' questioned how good he would be off the stuff, well, nobody has come up with a reason why the Colorado reporter decided to just up and tear down a local hero by saying that stuff... I don't think appearance is the deciding factor and it doesn't mean he has, but what it does mean is I doubt any GM in their right mind even touches Helton with a 10ft pole, that contract and a very realistic probability, perhaps not true, but reasonable conclusion he could have been one of the guys benefitting... you know A. Sanchez doesn't equal the hulk either, and if I had to guess Helton was using what he could to overcome his longstanding back injury and now that he can't use to stabilize his health, he's probably affected more day to day by the longstanding back problems. Perhaps towards the end of the year you will see the Rockies shut him down and come up with he's been battling an unreported injury all year ala Shawn Green... but I think we've seen the last of one of the models of hitting consistency.

BTW, hard to say HRs aren't down, they are down over 500 from last year... 512 to be exact and possibly for the 3rd straight year nobody hitting 50HRs, and ERA's are really improving for starters.

Not indicting anyone in particular, but the only explanation I've seen is that the big guns are down... but 1) why are all the big sluggers suddenly getting hurt? Wasn't that the point of many of the substances, rehab and getting back from injuries and 2) what about all the young guns who are really slamming the ball right now and picking up the slack which is really hiding the difference of the marked drop offs of many suspected players. At any rate, it is nice to have semi-trustworthy numbers being put up, and a nice fireworks show in the HR derby tonight... though one wonders how long players will continue to suffer elongated slumps with big dollars on the line... before they start really testing the limits of the drug program and finding out what they can and can't get away with, but at least they can't basically openly flaunt their use anymore which is nice.

[twolvesguy]

Your Twins got Brett Boone instead...

I don't believe they are done yet though.

GM Terry Ryan has even stated they'd like to bring in a big bat for the middle of the order, in addition to Boone. The Twins tried to rely too much on youngsters Mauer and Morneau. Both players are essentially in their 1st years. Outside of these 2 players, we don't have much in the way of hitters.

We have the players in the system the Royals would covet. Although Francisco Liriano is NOT available. The only issue would be Sweeney's salary. Stick Sweeney between the 2 lefties Mauer and Morneau in the #4 spot, and I think he'd help take the pressure off of these kids.

[Hurricane]

How ironic would it be if the Twins brought in Sweeney, when they could have had David Ortiz -- a much better hitter and always healthy -- for less than half the money.

Not that I'm complaining.

[twolvesguy]

How ironic would it be if the Twins brought in Sweeney, when they could have had David Ortiz -- a much better hitter and always healthy -- for less than half the money.

Not that I'm complaining.

Ortiz was anything but always healthy with the Twins. In fact, he was the exact opposite. This is probably the main reason they let him go, along with being another left handed bat in an order that was starving for someone to hit from the right side. This is another alluring aspect of bringing in Sweeney.

[TrueNorthBear]

Ortiz was always injured when he was with the Twins.

And really, NOONE would have predicted he would turn out to be the offensive force he is these days

[Hurricane]

Ortiz was always injured when he was with the Twins.

And really, NOONE would have predicted he would turn out to be the offensive force he is these days
Ok, fair enough. And it was mean of me to bring that up.

I just can't imagine a team wanting Sweeney. The Twins would be better off getting Griffey. At least he's been healthy this year.

[Special Ed]

For the Pirates if they haven't been mentioned...

Matt Lawton, Kip Wells, Mark Redman, and Jose Mesa are all receiving interest.

[twolvesguy]

Ok, fair enough. And it was mean of me to bring that up.

I just can't imagine a team wanting Sweeney. The Twins would be better off getting Griffey. At least he's been healthy this year.

Well, the Twins need a run-producing bat in the middle of the order. Preferably a Right-handed bat, and it would be nice if he could hit for power AND average. Sweeney fits the bill perfectly.

I'd be willing to give up anyone in the minor league system except Scott Baker and Francisco Liriano. There are plenty of other top prospect(especially pitcher) available.

[uwbadger12000]

I would for sure want Sweeney re-signed if we give away good prospects.

[VikingFan2k2]

I would for sure want Sweeney re-signed if we give away good prospects.

Anyone wonder about Morneau's Ego being a little hurt by bringing Sweeney in?

I like Justin and I think and hope he'll be the answer at 1B for the Twins, but to this point he has proven to be a soft player who doesn't play through aches and pains, when Torii Hunter is calling out a guy who is basically a rookie you know that something is up.

[twolvesguy]

I would for sure want Sweeney re-signed if we give away good prospects.

Sweeney is under contract for 2 more seasons AFTER this year.

Vike_fan, I wouldn't bring in Sweeney to Replace Morneau. Sweeney would be the full-time DH, and give Morneau a breather from time-to-time at 1B.

We could then dump you know who! :)

[uwbadger12000]

Anyone even know why we are even talking about Sweeney to the Twins? That possibility is about .0000000001% chance. Why the hell would Kansas City trade their best player to a divisional foe?

[Viks Fanatic]

Felipe Lopez has been their leadoff hitter since May, and is hitting .304, and his OBP is a very respectable .350. So at least 1/3 of the time Casey is at the plate, someone is on base.

I suspect the problem is that Lopez is on first and Casey hits a single and sends Lopez to 3rd, at which point Adam Dunn either hits a home run or strikes out.

first, Dunn rarely hits anything but a solo home run.... More likely is a Casey double play and Dunn K...

[Viks Fanatic]

Anyone even know why we are even talking about Sweeney to the Twins? That possibility is about .0000000001% chance. Why the hell would Kansas City trade their best player to a divisional foe?

The same reason why Cincinatti will end up trading Dunn to Houston or Chi.... They are stupid.

[Niner Empire]

a's just traded byrnes and a prospect for joe kennedy and witasick

[uwbadger12000]

to who????

[WeatherMike]

Colorado.

Also, the Rockies finally traded Preston Wilson and cash to the Nationals for Zach Day, J.J. Davis, and either a PTBNL or cash. :( Hopefully they don't make Ryan Church sit much for him.

[Hurricane]

A rumor out there appears to be AJ Burnett for Gustavo Chacin. Thoughts?

Apparently, Thome has a no-trade cluase. So he's probably not going anywhere.

Also I read speculatoin on the Braves. Interesting points here. If the kids, Marte, Johnson, Francoeur, Betemit, are for real, the Braves might consider moving a veteran like Chipper or Furcall for an arm. Though more likely they'd probably have to move one of the kids.

[raiderfan007]

A rumor out there appears to be AJ Burnett for Gustavo Chacin. Thoughts?

Apparently, Thome has a no-trade cluase. So he's probably not going anywhere.

Also I read speculatoin on the Braves. Interesting points here. If the kids, Marte, Johnson, Francoeur, Betemit, are for real, the Braves might consider moving a veteran like Chipper or Furcall for an arm. Though more likely they'd probably have to move one of the kids.

COuld blow up in the Jays face, if they can't sign Burnett to an extension, and we lose a solid # 3/4 Lefty for a one year loan.

That being said, as far as raw talent goes, Chacin can't hold Burnett's jock...Although Chacin has that thing you can't teach: Competitive drive and intensity.

Apparently the Jays would have to offer up Cattalonato or a ML arm as well...

[uwbadger12000]

Anyone hear of any trade rumors involving the Twins?

[Ruzious]

The O's are making a run at Burnett - with 20 year old Hayden Penn as the prize - along with Jorge Julio and disappointing but talented Larry Bigbie. The word is that Burnett has pitched his last game as a Marlin, but there are several teams after him. The Sawx are also in the running.

[TheStarStillShines]

The one rumour involving Toronto and Florida is that Florida is asking for Chacin, Gabe Gross (a talented, young, left-handed hitting OF), and hard-throwing prospect Brandon League. That offer would blow Baltimore's out of the water. The Jays apparently are reluctant to deal both League and Chacin.

I expect Chacin to be dealt in any deal for Burnett. If that's the case, expect something like Chacin, Gross, and likely a current reliever and possibly a lower-level pitcher. If League is involved, expect the Jays to ask for 1B prospect Jason Stokes, who is blocked by Delgado.

But the Orioles may have the upper hand over the Jays if the Orioles agree to take on Mike Lowell or Juan Encarnacion. The Jays likely won't agree to taking on more salary, especially Lowell, who is owed about $18M over the next 2 years.

[Ruzious]

Yup, the O's willingness to take on Lowell appears to give them an advantage. He would likely move to 1B for the O's - with Palmeiro going to DH, Sosa to RF, and Gibbons to LF.

For some reason, the White Sox have been making a pitch for Burnett. They already have an outstanding big 3 in their rotation, so I don't know what their motivation would be - considering the money it would take to re-sign Burnett to just be their 4th starter. And how much do you use a 4th starter in the playoffs? Not a lot.

[UK_Niners_fan]

Apparently according to ESPN, Cleveland made an unsuccessful move for Texas 2B Alfonso Soriano, offering two of their better prospects, Aaron Brown and Brad Snyder. If the Rangers fall out of the race soon, which I expect with their dearth of pitching and the resurgence of the A's, I wouldn't be surprised to see Soriano get traded given that it is reputedly unlikely that he will re-sign with the Rangers. As a fantasy owner, I really don't want to see him leave the friendly confines of Arlington!

[MDPatFan]

The O's are making a run at Burnett - with 20 year old Hayden Penn as the prize - along with Jorge Julio and disappointing but talented Larry Bigbie.
I'd hate this trade. Too much for what may well be a 3 month loan.
Take Penn out of the mix and I'd be ok with it. (they can take Ponson, please!)

[Canada]

The one rumour involving Toronto and Florida is that Florida is asking for Chacin, Gabe Gross (a talented, young, left-handed hitting OF), and hard-throwing prospect Brandon League. That offer would blow Baltimore's out of the water. The Jays apparently are reluctant to deal both League and Chacin.

I expect Chacin to be dealt in any deal for Burnett. If that's the case, expect something like Chacin, Gross, and likely a current reliever and possibly a lower-level pitcher. If League is involved, expect the Jays to ask for 1B prospect Jason Stokes, who is blocked by Delgado.

But the Orioles may have the upper hand over the Jays if the Orioles agree to take on Mike Lowell or Juan Encarnacion. The Jays likely won't agree to taking on more salary, especially Lowell, who is owed about $18M over the next 2 years.



Didn't T.Rogers state that he would spend more money at the beginning of the year?

Time for Ted to step up.

[The Q]

I'd hate this trade. Too much for what may well be a 3 month loan.
Take Penn out of the mix and I'd be ok with it. (they can take Ponson, please!)

Burnett's wife is from the Baltimore area and according to ESPN insider said he'd be willing to take less money to stay on the East Coast for her.

[TheStarStillShines]

Didn't T.Rogers state that he would spend more money at the beginning of the year?

Time for Ted to step up.

Ted Rogers committed $210M over 3 years to the Jays, including this year. The money could be allocated any way J.P. Ricciardi sees fit. So, the Jays' payroll this year is $50M. That leaves them with $160M to work with over the next two years.

[Outshined_One]

Cleveland just traded OF Jody Gerut to the Cubs in exchange for OF Jason Dubois.

[TheStarStillShines]

More Jays rumours:

- They've fallen out of the Burnett sweepstakes as Florida is insisting on any team to take on Mike Lowell and his huge contract ($21.5M remaining).

- Jays may now turn their sights to Kip Wells of the Pirates. I wouldn't go near him, personally, although he has talent. He's struggled mightily the past 6 weeks, which raises huge flags.

- Boston is interested in Miguel Batista and J.P. Ricciardi is reportedly asking for Hanley Ramirez. In other words, the Jays are not interested in dealing Batista, especially to a division rival when Batista is locked up for another year. If some team wants Batista, they're going to have to pay up to acquire him.

- Texas Rangers are reportedly agressively pursuing Vernon Wells. Not sure what they're offering, but they have tried to get Wells for the past 2 years. Ricciardi has stated that Wells isn't available, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is dealt if the Rangers offered Adrian Gonzalez, Thomas Diamond, and Kevin Mench.

[twolvesguy]

I'm hearing of a rumored deal between MN & Boston.

JC Romero for Bill Mueller.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/503/5513393.html

As a Twins fan, I'd love this deal. Didn't Mueller win the batting title a couple years ago?

Can any Red Sox fans tell me anything more about Mueller?

How would you feel about this deal?

[Genus49]

I love the sox but there are definately two types of guys on this team.

The easy going bunch: aka Millar, Damon, Manny, Ortiz

and the hard nosed players: aka Nixon, Tek, Schilling etc...and Mueller is definately one of them. He's a gamer. Yes he does have bad knees but the guy has been great for the sox. Plays great D and can hit. Has had some clutch hits including 2 big ones off Mariano. (Walkoff HR in regular season last year and the single to score Roberts in game 4 to tie)

I know a lot of fans that will be very disappointed to see Billy go. I love the guy but I'd understand if he got traded since it's very likely he won't be resigned anyways after this season.

[Underdog]

Yeah, I'd hate to see Mueller go, too, but if it nets a decent pen arm like Romero, that would be a no-brainer because Youkilis can step right in and play 3B everyday.

Mueller is a consummate professional. Solid D, solid bat, smart baserunner. He's never going to make a dumb mistake to hurt you.

[twolvesguy]

Info for you Sox fans on Romero.

You might not like what you'd be getting out of this deal. Ignore his ERA number, and concentrate on his Walks, and his 'inherited runners scored'. The guy is a middle reliever, so often times comes in with runners on base. Assume those runners will turn into runs for the opposition. He has occasional bouts of wildness also.

The Twins have 3 or 4 pitchers in the minors that need to be promoted to the bigs. They are desperately trying to move some pitchers off of their major league roster. Kyle Loshe, and JC Romero are at the top of this list.

[Genus49]

Well I think the only option here is that you take Millar, instead of Mueller :)

Hardly a difference in names in face the first one is spelled like the second one sounds.

And when you get Kevin, try not to look at his stats. Hrs and RBis. Try to look at him as a guy that can provide great hijinx to your team and be a great influence in the dugout where he makes everyone into idiots ;)

Personally I like how the article said Millar is also an option but he informed the Sox that he wants to stay with them. Ok if he did that I guess Theo can't possibly move him :)

[twolvesguy]

Well, what does Millar play?

The Twins are desperate for a 3rd basemen. Doesn't Millar play 1B/OF primarily? If that's the case, I can't see this deal working out for MN. Unless you want to take Lohse too for both Mueller & Millar.

[Underdog]

Well, technically Millar has played 3B, but heaven help you all if he's your everyday guy. Especially on turf. He's a below-average 1B/corner OF.

I know Romero's not super great or anything, but A) he's left-handed, B) he's a lot younger and miles better than Alan Embree right now, C) I don't think there's a chance of getting anyone any better for Mueller (even though I think he's an excellent player, he is a pending FA, he's 34 years old, and as Genus mentioned his knees are probably twice that), and D) IMO they really need to get Kevin Youkilis into the everyday lineup.

[twolvesguy]

Fair enough Underdog. I didn't know Mueller was that old, or that his knees were in that bad of shape.

The way things are going now though, if this deal doesn't happen in the next few days, the Twins might turn into sellers for this trading deadline. They're about as dead in the water as any team could be mid-July.

[VikingFan2k2]

I like this trade, but Bill Mueller definately isn't going to be the cure all for our offensive woes. We still need to do more.

Come on Carl, up the payroll by just 20% and we could really have something here!

[The Q]

If the Twins want Mueller, I'm asking the Twins for Juan Rincon. Jesse Crain ahs been so good this year that INsider was reporting earlier in the year that Rincon was no longer untouchable.

I can't see Romero beign that much of an upgrade over Embree. He was real good in 2002 but seems to be living off that performance.

[twolvesguy]

If the Twins want Mueller, I'm asking the Twins for Juan Rincon. Jesse Crain ahs been so good this year that INsider was reporting earlier in the year that Rincon was no longer untouchable.

I can't see Romero beign that much of an upgrade over Embree. He was real good in 2002 but seems to be living off that performance.

If the price is Rincon, then I'd want something more than Mueller.

After some further research, I've found that Mueller has little time left. And his recent power numbers, along with his batting title are more the exception than the rule.

If the Twins were one position(3rd base) player away from contending, this would be a fair deal, but we aren't and it isn't. For all of Romero's faults, he's still an adequate/above average Left handed reliever. If he ever gains command of his pitches, he could be elite. But that's also a big IF.

[Canada]

Billy Mueller.....he drove in Dave Roberts.

Hard nosed winner.

[Special Ed]

Rumored three way deal between the Orioles, Marlins, and Pirates. Although now it looks like it might be done just between two teams possibly.

Orioles would get AJ Burnett and Daryle Ward
Pirates Mike Lowell
Marlins Mark Redman
Then a bunch of other less names have been mentioned.

[BionicPatriot]

Info for you Sox fans on Romero.

You might not like what you'd be getting out of this deal. Ignore his ERA number, and concentrate on his Walks, and his 'inherited runners scored'. The guy is a middle reliever, so often times comes in with runners on base. Assume those runners will turn into runs for the opposition. He has occasional bouts of wildness also.

The Twins have 3 or 4 pitchers in the minors that need to be promoted to the bigs. They are desperately trying to move some pitchers off of their major league roster. Kyle Loshe, and JC Romero are at the top of this list.

Outside of the walks, that sounds just like Timlin. If we got a left handed Timlin for this team, that would do wonders for us..We would be in damn good shape in the pen that way. This could work out for both teams..I'd hate to see Mueller go, because he is a clutch blue collared guy. It's just that he's old, not as productive as he used to be..He's older, and his knees, etc. The deal would work out for both teams. Now I also read today you guys might be interested in Millar? If thats the case, this deal would be bad for you guys..Millar is a loud mouth, under achieving first basemen. And if we got Romero for Millar, this would be a steal for the Sox...JMO.

[Fandango]

If I were the Twins I wouldn't trade Romero for either Millar or Mueller. Neither is going to help our club enough to warrant trading a legit left handed reliever to you guys. I would much rather use Romero in a package deal that would bring over a difference maker.

[Hurricane]

No way the Sox give up Mueller. But Youkilis I could live with. Romero has issues, but the Sox need his Ks and will settle for a few walks. Better walks than HR, which is all Embree gave us.

Orioles are fools if they don't just eat Lowell's deal to get Burnett.

Can you believe TB wanted Hanley Ramirez for Baez? What are they smoking?

[twolvesguy]

No way the Sox give up Mueller. But Youkilis I could live with. Romero has issues, but the Sox need his Ks and will settle for a few walks. Better walks than HR, which is all Embree gave us.

I don't think the Twins should make this deal here Hurricane. From what it sounds like, Mueller is on his last leg, and will be a FA after this season anyways. While Romero has his issues, there's not many adequate Left handed relievers available.


Can you believe TB wanted Hanley Ramirez for Baez? What are they smoking?

How about the Reds asking price for 35 year old Joe Randa? They offered Randa to the Twins for Scott Baker! :eek:

After the Twins finished their 2 hour belly laugh, they managed to reply with a 'HELL NO'!!

[DefenseWins]

If the Red Sox want a lefty bad we'll give you Kline. :D

[Hurricane]

I don't think the Twins should make this deal here Hurricane. From what it sounds like, Mueller is on his last leg, and will be a FA after this season anyways. While Romero has his issues, there's not many adequate Left handed relievers available.
Well, Mueller isn't on his last leg, but the Sox don't want to deal a key component to their team, and Youkilis is a decent 3B and younger. Youki for Romero might make sense.

[twolvesguy]

The player I want the Twins to go after is Mike Sweeney. He'd be perfect for their pathetic lineup.

I'd offer Glenn Perkins & Kyle Loshe right now.

[Hurricane]

The player I want the Twins to go after is Mike Sweeney. He'd be perfect for their pathetic lineup.

I'd offer Glenn Perkins & Kyle Loshe right now.
Would you settle on Kevin Millar?

[bucsfan4life]

The player I want the Twins to go after is Mike Sweeney. He'd be perfect for their pathetic lineup.

I'd offer Glenn Perkins & Kyle Loshe right now.
do you really think kansas city would trade sweeney to a team in the division?

[twolvesguy]

Would you settle on Kevin Millar?

Maybe for Kyle Loshe, but if we're dealing Glenn Perkins, we're getting back a legitimate, established player. Perkins was drafted last season from the University of MN. He is a left handed starting pitcher. Throws in the low/mid 90's, and has been climbing the ladder extremely fast. He's in AA now, and has a shot to be called up this September. If the Twins didn't have such a deep rotation, he'd be pegged as a member of this rotation next season. As it stands now, we're trying to find room for both Baker and Liriano in the rotation next season as Baker is overdue, and Liriano is simply playing with the opposition at AAA.

IMO, the Twins don't need another good/mediocre bat. We need a legitimate threat in the batting order. Sweeney, Thome(health considerations), Griffey Jr., ect.....

Besides, unless Millar can play 3rd base, there really isn't any need for him.

[twolvesguy]

do you really think kansas city would trade sweeney to a team in the division?

I don't abide by that way of thinking. If the deal makes sense for both teams, why shouldn't each team make the deal?

[bucsfan4life]

I don't abide by that way of thinking. If the deal makes sense for both teams, why shouldn't each team make the deal?
you might not abide by it, but the GMs do

[twolvesguy]

you might not abide by it, but the GMs do

Not all, Twins GM Terry Ryan has already stated he has no issues trading within the division, or trading with a competitor for the Wild card position.

As long as you think it'll help your team out, why should it matter?

[Fandango]

Well, Mueller isn't on his last leg, but the Sox don't want to deal a key component to their team, and Youkilis is a decent 3B and younger. Youki for Romero might make sense.

Mueller is a key component of the team? I wouldn't put his importance above Damon, Ortiz, Ramirez, Varitek, Schilling, Clement, Arroya and a couple other players. Can he really be considered a 'key component' at that point? I don't doubt that he has been very clutch in the past, but I don't think he has as much value as you maintain. If I were Terry Ryan, I wouldn't trade Romero for Mueller.

[Fandango]

Maybe for Kyle Loshe, but if we're dealing Glenn Perkins, we're getting back a legitimate, established player. Perkins was drafted last season from the University of MN. He is a left handed starting pitcher. Throws in the low/mid 90's, and has been climbing the ladder extremely fast. He's in AA now, and has a shot to be called up this September. If the Twins didn't have such a deep rotation, he'd be pegged as a member of this rotation next season. As it stands now, we're trying to find room for both Baker and Liriano in the rotation next season as Baker is overdue, and Liriano is simply playing with the opposition at AAA.

IMO, the Twins don't need another good/mediocre bat. We need a legitimate threat in the batting order. Sweeney, Thome(health considerations), Griffey Jr., ect.....

Besides, unless Millar can play 3rd base, there really isn't any need for him.

twolves, I think exactly the same as you. Unless we can trade for a difference maker (ie a proven hitter, with some power) I don't see why would even bother to do these little deals that won't end up helping us win the division. Why trade Romero for an aging 3rd basemen who is a FA after the season?

The player we have to go after IMO is Adam Dunn. Apparently he can be had for the right price, so why don't we package some players to the Reds for Dunn, he is exactly what we need! His defense may suck, but he can play DH for us. I don't care if he K's too much because we need a threat to drive in runs in the middle of the lineup.

[twolvesguy]

Dunn is another guy that I should have listed. He brings the power threat that this lineup desperately needs. Morneau will be there soon/someday, but he obviously wasn't ready yet to assume that role all by himself.

[Hurricane]

Mueller is a key component of the team? I wouldn't put his importance above Damon, Ortiz, Ramirez, Varitek, Schilling, Clement, Arroya and a couple other players. Can he really be considered a 'key component' at that point? I don't doubt that he has been very clutch in the past, but I don't think he has as much value as you maintain. If I were Terry Ryan, I wouldn't trade Romero for Mueller.
I agree that there are other even more key components. And yet whenever Mueller has been out of the lineup, they seem to struggle. Go figure.

[VikingFan2k2]

Dunn is another guy that I should have listed. He brings the power threat that this lineup desperately needs. Morneau will be there soon/someday, but he obviously wasn't ready yet to assume that role all by himself.

If you don't like the way Jones approaches the game, Dunn isn't going to be all that great himself. He's good for 180 to 200 Ks per year. Yeah he might be worth 40+ HRs, but there are a few other more patient guys who could do that too. I'd prefer a more patient power hitter who hits for average.

Not to say I wouldn't want him on my team, but I wouldn't clear out the farm systems for him.

[Fandango]

The difference is Vfan is that it is easier to forgive bad plate discipline when a guy is hitting 40 plus jacks a year as compared to 17. I too would obviously prefer a power hitter who can also hit for average, but those are very, very rare.

[VikingFan2k2]

The difference is Vfan is that it is easier to forgive bad plate discipline when a guy is hitting 40 plus jacks a year as compared to 17. I too would obviously prefer a power hitter who can also hit for average, but those are very, very rare.

Agreed. I'm just saying I'd rather not clear everything for a guy who is arbitration eligible and is clearly a rent-a-player.

[WeatherMike]

There's some well-founded speculation that the Washington Nationals may be close to a fairly significant trade.

First of all, they got rid of the hideous Wil Cordero and claimed an outfielder off the Reds. This wouldn't be a big deal, except this gives them six outfielders on the major league roster. Not only that, but they also arbitrarily outrighted a couple of minor leaguers, opening up two spots on the 40-man roster.

There are two two-player combinations that have been swirling around in recent days: Julio Lugo and Danys Baez and (probably more pie-in-the-sky) Jason Schmidt and Deivi Cruz. Jim Bowden has also publicly remarked to fans that they should expect a big name young player to move before the trade deadline (not that a lot of GMs haven't said that, but still).

Lugo makes sense because he's a decent fielder at the shortstop position (most important on the defense) and can actually hit the ball, unlike the guy who was the worst offensive regular in the majors until Frank sent him to the bench last night, Cristian Guzman. Plus, the Nationals are really wearing the heck out of their bullpen, especially Luis Ayala (whose arm is about to fall off and should be on the DL). No matter what anyone tells you about their "great bullpen," they need some help there too.

So, adding it up, I figure it could be Ryan Church (an OF, of course), who ESPN.com has listed as questionable with some injury nobody knows anything about. He supposedly hurt it in his last at-bat tonight, but who knows.

It all fits. I guess this is my first crack at a conspiracy theory of sorts.

Edit: The outfielder they claimed is a slap-hitting speedster a lot like a Nationals prospect who has been mentioned in some rumors, Tyrell Godwin.

[Fandango]

...I'd rather not clear everything for a guy who is arbitration eligible and is clearly a rent-a-player.

Agreed! It sucks during trade time to be a franchise like the Twins, a small spender. Because if we go after a guy like Dunn and have to give up a few quality minor leaguers we, unlike the Sox and Yanks, cannot just go out and sign a quality FA to replace those lost via the trade. It sucks, but it is reality. Which is why I have been saying over and over (to my friends) that it is silly to make moves for guys like Mueller, Millar, etc if we have to give up quality minor leaguers. The only way we give up a quality prospect is if we get a good player in return.

[Hurricane]

Interesting speculation, WM. The only thing I'll say is that any deal with TB usually involves giving up a player who's WAY more valuable than what you get back. They always seem to hold out for the ludicrous. (Like Hanley for Baez.) and every now and then they find an owner/GM who's so desparate they will deal a Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. My perspective: be afraid of who you guys might be giving up for Lugo or Baez. But right now, TB is one of the only teams with players willing to deal. And those two guys are pretty decent pickups if they come your way.

[WeatherMike]

Interesting speculation, WM. The only thing I'll say is that any deal with TB usually involves giving up a player who's WAY more valuable than what you get back. They always seem to hold out for the ludicrous. (Like Hanley for Baez.) and every now and then they find an owner/GM who's so desparate they will deal a Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. My perspective: be afraid of who you guys might be giving up for Lugo or Baez. But right now, TB is one of the only teams with players willing to deal. And those two guys are pretty decent pickups if they come your way.
I am full aware with that. But similarly, Jim Bowden has explicitly said that he won't trade away any players that aren't a 7 or 8 under his 2-8 scale under ANY circumstance. Ryan Church is a guy that folks seem to disagree on. Those who like him most point to the successful year he's having and the fact that he used to be considered a very good prospect. Those who don't care for him that well think the fact he's 26 shows he's just an average OF or good 4th OF who is just having a good year. It might be that Tampa thinks a lot of him, and Washington doesn't. I know Frank doesn't care for him that well. He still sits him in favor of Marlon Byrd vs. lefties despite the fact that he's done much batter and hit a game-winning home run in one of the few chances he's got against lefthanders (and that was only because there was NO ONE left on the bench). Behind by one run and with one man in scoring position, Frank had a slap-hitting middle infielder PH for him. He's a nice backup but is not nearly the hitter Church him. When I saw that happen, I decided it was dumb. And what happens? The PH grounds into a game-ending double play on the very first pitch. Way to go Frank. Another senior moment.

[uwbadger12000]

Does anyone know if the Twins are interested in Hillenbrand? I would love it if the Twins got him.

[Canada]

is that a rumour?


Hillenbrand to the Twins?

[The Q]

is that a rumour?


Hillenbrand to the Twins?

Not a chance. JP has made it perfectly clear that Shea is untouchable.

However, the Twins seem to be interested in Bill Mueller and Kevin Millar (god bless Terry Ryan's soul) and would give up Romero and either Lohse or Mays to get them.

Of course, the Sox would be doing it to add an upgraded lefty reliever for "Gasolina" (Embree) and to add AJ Burnett :D

[tommyboy]

I've heard it more than once...so I don't know how likely it is of happening.

[tommyboy]

If Hillenbrand is untouchable, then why would anyone want someone who's available.... :eek:

I don't know why the Twins would have any interest in Mueller, the intrigue in Millar is further disturbing.

[The Q]

If Hillenbrand is untouchable, then why would anyone want someone who's available.... :eek:

I don't know why the Twins would have any interest in Mueller, the intrigue in Millar is further disturbing.

Well, each situation is different. First, the Blue Jays really aren't dead. They're like 5 games back. Definately possible contenders.

2nd, JP is working on a long term plan. ownership finally gave him some money to work with, now he's trying to build a team.

3rd, Mueller is a good ball player, very much a Twins-esque player...except older. And, have you seen some of the guys you've trotted out there? :eek:

[TheStarStillShines]

Yeah, Ricciardi has basically stated that he's not trading Hillenbrand since the Jays own his rights for one more season. That being said, if he gets an offer he can't refuse, he'll deal Hillenbrand. Ricciardi is just trying to drive up the price for any of the Jays. I would, however, be surprised if Ricciardi dealt Hillenbrand this year, as he's been very good for the Jays. Also, the Jays are building for next year, so any deal would have to involve young, major-league ready players.

[tommyboy]

Well, each situation is different. First, the Blue Jays really aren't dead. They're like 5 games back. Definately possible contenders.

2nd, JP is working on a long term plan. ownership finally gave him some money to work with, now he's trying to build a team.

3rd, Mueller is a good ball player, very much a Twins-esque player...except older. And, have you seen some of the guys you've trotted out there? :eek:


Yeah, I've seen em. I was trying to forget.

[The Q]

Yeah, I've seen em. I was trying to forget.

Exactly my point. And the thing I know some of you Twins fans love, the guy is a clutch hitter (over .400 with the bases loaded).

[BionicPatriot]

If Hillenbrand is untouchable, then why would anyone want someone who's available.... :eek:

I don't know why the Twins would have any interest in Mueller, the intrigue in Millar is further disturbing.


Well Mueller would make sense, he's a damn good blue collar hitter who is clutch. With that said, your damn right about the Millar speculation..Hell, it's not even disturbing, rather retarded. If you guys give us a quality arm for Millar you guys would of been robbed. I know it wont happen, but oh well, I can dream right?

[jdlewis]

Does anyone know if the Twins are interested in Hillenbrand? I would love it if the Twins got him.

It is funny how nobody wanted him in the offseason and now there is interest.. all D-backs got was a broken down pitcher who sucked and got waived.... of course that is Joe Jr. for ya... Hilly could always slap the ball for a good avg... but little natural power or fielding prowess, though he's been much better in Toronto.

[tommyboy]

I still would have a hard time trading Romero for a rent a player. Mueller will sign with the sox again anyways, and Mueller won't be enough to get us to the playoffs...making it a Romero giveaway.

The Twins are too young to make a series run, and adding Mueller doesn't make sense if he's not gonna be around for more than a half season. No way I make that trade, no matter how much Boston needs bullpen help.

[MDPatFan]

It looks like the O's will get Burnett tonight. The rumor has Sidney Ponson involved along with Lovell (clearing out Sir Sid's overpriced/underproductive self in exchage for Mike L's overpriced/underproductive self).

I still don't like trading Penn, but if we get to dump 'the drunken idiot' as part of the deal, OK.

[The Q]

Can someone tell me what is so great about this package? I really think the Marlins have become too obsessed with their bullpen, adding 3 bullpen guys (it really wouldn't surrpise me if they brought Penn out of the pen this season, and Ponson is reportedly on his way to TB for Trevor Miller) and an underachieving OF in Bigbie.

This is not the kind of deal that makes a team much better. Julio lost his job because of his inconsistency, Penn is unproven and Miller isn't exactly good. Penn has some promise but got racked when he made the show.

Is no one really making a better offer than this?

[VikingFan2k2]

To all Red Sox fans:

PLEASE-PLEASE-PLEASE-PLEASE TAKE JOE MAYS OFF OUR HANDS!

Our offense can't make up for his lack of talent, yours can.

[Genus49]

I still would have a hard time trading Romero for a rent a player. Mueller will sign with the sox again anyways, and Mueller won't be enough to get us to the playoffs...making it a Romero giveaway.

The Twins are too young to make a series run, and adding Mueller doesn't make sense if he's not gonna be around for more than a half season. No way I make that trade, no matter how much Boston needs bullpen help.

I highly doubt the Sox would try to resign Mueller with Youk being able to take over for him, especially cuz Billy will be asking for bigger bucks and his knees are shaky. I love the guy, but if he's traded it's very doubtful he'll be back with the sox after the offseason.

[MDPatFan]

Man I hope the O's trade Ponson before tomorrow...He's scheduled to start. :(

[Zeppe]

Man I hope the O's trade Ponson before tomorrow...He's scheduled to start. :(

Ask and ye shall recieve (if Nevin waves his no trade clause): http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2114944

[Ruzious]

As an O's fan, I have a real problem with what's been going on the last several days. Their co-GM's (and having co-GM's isn't even their biggest problem.) basically made a very good deal with Florida, but their owner sat on it for a couple of days and ended up killing it. Now, they had worked long and hard on this deal, and Angelos had to have known what was being discussed all along. Then, they make a nice deal with Tampa Bay, and again - the owner kills it. Now, they have a deal with San Diego, and they're trading for a player who doesn't want to go to Baltimore - and... he's a 34 year old injury-prone first baseman having with an OPS barely over .700. The last player Angelos acquired with that description was Dave Segui - and he was a bonafide disaster.

Before this year, the O's had been a case study in mis-management. It appeared that might have been changing. It's clearly not. The organization continues to be run as if they're an Ianesco play on the Theater of the Absurd.

If Mike Flannigan and Jim Beattie didn't need their jobs, I'm sure they'd quit - unless they just don't have any pride.

[The Q]

Angelos did not kill the 2nd deal. Ponson did with his no trade clause. And the first deal, when it comes to eating such a big contract like Lowell's, I think the owner has every right to get his own way on the deal. If they didn't have to take on Lowell, I don't think the trade would've even been an issue.

[Ruzious]

Fair enough about the 2nd deal - that's true. But you missed my point about the rest. They were working on the Burnett deal for over week - you're telling me they did it without Angelos' knowledge? That's not likely. The same thing has happened year after year - with different GMs. They work on a trade or a free agent signing - and when it comes to getting the final ok, Angelos says no. This doesn't happen with other teams on a regular basis like it happens with the O's. Of course he has the right - as an owner to do it. But you do that up front - telling the GM what the financial parameters are. Then, you let them do the jobs they're paid to do. Otherwise, you're cutting their jueves off.

We've heard from baseball insiders that teams would deal with the O's, except they can't get decisions from them. First, they have 2 GMs to get a yes or no from. Then, they have an owner that generally won't let them do their job. This is a team that obviously needed help more than a month ago - to stay in the playoffs. They've replaced injured players twice with players from A ball this season - Jeff Fiorentino and Hayden Penn - probably damaging their development - instead of going out and acquiring some help. Now, they had a chance to rectify their tardiness, and - at the last minute - Angelos changes his mind. Now, Florida's so pissed, they won't even talk to the O's - according to ESPN.

There's no justifying what Angelos has done as the O's owner - this year or the last several years. He's a class action suit lawyer, and a classless and actionless suit as an owner.

[The Q]

Is there anything that said Angelos gave the financial OK to eat Lowell's deal? Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the reality of it was that the O's were trying all week to work out a deal that DIDN'T acquire Lowell, and then tried to peddle him off to pitt when that didn't work. Pitt killed that deal BTW.

I know what you're saying, but I just don't think that even Angelos would give them the ok and then back off at the end. Anyone, especially a lawyer, should see that that's just not smart.

[Ruzious]

Is there anything that said Angelos gave the financial OK to eat Lowell's deal? Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the reality of it was that the O's were trying all week to work out a deal that DIDN'T acquire Lowell, and then tried to peddle him off to pitt when that didn't work. Pitt killed that deal BTW.

I know what you're saying, but I just don't think that even Angelos would give them the ok and then back off at the end. Anyone, especially a lawyer, should see that that's just not smart.
Q, it's been all over ESPN, the Washington Post, and the Baltimore Sun. And this is the way it's been year after year for the O's. Bigbie and Julio were even told they were traded! It's nothing new here. Angelos did - in fact - veto the deal.

Angelos has made virtually all of his money on a couple of class action law suits - asbestos and tobacco - there was probably one other that I can't remember - because he had connections in the State of Maryland that allowed him to get the case and guaranteed millions - hundreds of millions. That doesn't make him a smart guy - it just makes him a well connected son of a bee. The people that follow the O's closely know what a truly fugged up organization it's been since he bought them from Eli Jacobs about 10 years ago. Believe me, I am not exaggerating even a little bit when I say that. A good lively source of O's info is at www.orioleshangout.com.

[The Q]

Q, it's been all over ESPN, the Washington Post, and the Baltimore Sun. And this is the way it's been year after year for the O's. Bigbie and Julio were even told they were traded! It's nothing new here. Angelos did - in fact - veto the deal.

Angelos has made virtually all of his money on a couple of class action law suits - asbestos and tobacco - there was probably one other that I can't remember - because he had connections in the State of Maryland that allowed him to get the case and guaranteed millions - hundreds of millions. That doesn't make him a smart guy - it just makes him a well connected son of a bee. The people that follow the O's closely know what a truly fugged up organization it's been since he bought them from Eli Jacobs about 10 years ago. Believe me, I am not exaggerating even a little bit when I say that. A good lively source of O's info is at www.orioleshangout.com.

Ok, that's all I was asking. And ESPN did not say anything about Angelos giving them the go ahead to eat that salary. All it said was that they were in discussions and Lowell had to be thrown in. Notice how quickly things fell apart as soon as that knowledge was made public? I'm not gonna doubt the other sources since I didn't see them. MOst of the stuff I've been reading has been from ESPN.com and ESPN.com Insider (who use alot of nation papers as their sources). From what I read, in the day or two following the public sentiment that Lowell had to be taken off theri hands, the Orioles tried to peddle him off to Pitt, and when that fell through tried to make a deal with the D-Rays as well to shed some of their own unwanted salary (the Ponson deal).

[TheStarStillShines]

Looks like Nevin is going to veto the deal.

Wow, what a terrible environment it must be in Baltimore. 4 roster players who were told they were going to be dealt are still with the team and the team is struggling mightily. Things could get really ugly in Baltimore.

[Ruzious]

Looks like Nevin is going to veto the deal.

Wow, what a terrible environment it must be in Baltimore. 4 roster players who were told they were going to be dealt are still with the team and the team is struggling mightily. Things could get really ugly in Baltimore.
Exactly. And to give you an idea of what it's like rooting for the O's, this has been their most successful, happy, and well run season in the last 8. They say pimpin' ain't easy (I saw "Hustle and Flow" today - very good movie and even better performances). Well, they should try being an O's fan.

[TxFootballFan]

Looks like Nevin is going to veto the deal.




I think one of the best question any of us here can ask is: How in the hell did Phil Nevin get a No-Trade clause? He does know he is Phil Nevin, right?

[MDPatFan]

I thought the Burnett deal died because the O's didn't think they could sign him to a long term deal. If that's true, I'm glad the deal fell through. There's no way I'd want to lose Penn, Julio and Bigbie for 2 months of Burnett. That would be a horrible deal.

[Ruzious]

Q and MDPatFan, maybe you guys can something better to do than apologize for Peter Angelos after reading this quote from Peter Gammons:

"Then there are ownership issues, such as the one in Baltimore that allowed Jim Beattie and Mike Flanagan to work on a Lowell-Burnett deal for two weeks, then the owner effectively tells The Baltimore Sun he doesn't like it. And don't think Peter Angelos hasn't always been involved: He killed two Pat Gillick trades in 1996, then in 1998. The Padres had agreed to trade Ben Davis and a pitcher to the Orioles for B.J. Surhoff, but when Angelos found out that the Pads were going to move Surhoff on to the Yankees for Alfonso Soriano, he nixed it because he didn't want Surhoff in pinstripes."

[jimthefin]

The Padres had agreed to trade Ben Davis and a pitcher to the Orioles for B.J. Surhoff, but when Angelos found out that the Pads were going to move Surhoff on to the Yankees for Alfonso Soriano, he nixed it because he didn't want Surhoff in pinstripes."


Thanks Pete :D

[The Q]

Q and MDPatFan, maybe you guys can something better to do than apologize for Peter Angelos after reading this quote from Peter Gammons:

"Then there are ownership issues, such as the one in Baltimore that allowed Jim Beattie and Mike Flanagan to work on a Lowell-Burnett deal for two weeks, then the owner effectively tells The Baltimore Sun he doesn't like it. And don't think Peter Angelos hasn't always been involved: He killed two Pat Gillick trades in 1996, then in 1998. The Padres had agreed to trade Ben Davis and a pitcher to the Orioles for B.J. Surhoff, but when Angelos found out that the Pads were going to move Surhoff on to the Yankees for Alfonso Soriano, he nixed it because he didn't want Surhoff in pinstripes."

This was exactly the kind of thing I was asking you for in my first post. Some kind of quote or proof that he had actually done this and not just speculation. Ok fine, Pete is a prick. :cool:

[Hurricane]

Q and MDPatFan, maybe you guys can something better to do than apologize for Peter Angelos after reading this quote from Peter Gammons:

"Then there are ownership issues, such as the one in Baltimore that allowed Jim Beattie and Mike Flanagan to work on a Lowell-Burnett deal for two weeks, then the owner effectively tells The Baltimore Sun he doesn't like it. And don't think Peter Angelos hasn't always been involved: He killed two Pat Gillick trades in 1996, then in 1998. The Padres had agreed to trade Ben Davis and a pitcher to the Orioles for B.J. Surhoff, but when Angelos found out that the Pads were going to move Surhoff on to the Yankees for Alfonso Soriano, he nixed it because he didn't want Surhoff in pinstripes."
Wow. Just, wow.

Baltimore is a mess. I don't get how a guy as smart as Angelos has let that situation fall apart like that. And WTF are they thinking trying to get Nevin, anyway?

That team should make a REAL trade and get Griffey. Or Burnett and eat some of Lowell's contract.

[Hurricane]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/24/AR2005072401119.html

Washington Post is reporting that Karl Rove ... er ... I mean Phil Nevin has waived his no trade clause and is going to Baltimore.

[The Q]

ESPN is saying that after 2 dominating peformances, the Marlins may jsut hold onto Burnett and hope that they just start playing up to their talent level and get back into the WC race. I don't see it happening, but that's their choice. If they do trade him, it comes down to the two Sox teams. I guess Anibal Sanchez could decide his fate. If the Sox don't want to deal him, then Marte and Brandon McCarthy would go back to Florida. Otherwise it's Bronson Arroyo and Sanchez.

[Genus49]

I wouldn't be a big fan of the Arroyo and Sanchez for Burnett trade.

I think Sanchez has very good potential to be a solid starter down the line for the sox. That and the fact that Bronson isn't a bad pitcher.

Obviously I would like the sox to get Burnett but not with that deal.

I think the guys the sox shouldn't trade from the farm are:
Papelbon, Lester, Pedroia, Ramirez, Sanchez, Delcarmen the rest are up for grabs.

[The Q]

I'd be willing to dela Pedroia much more than I'd be willing to deal Moss. That dude is fast as hell and raking. Pedroia just doesn't project as much to me. If the Marlins would take Pedroia and Arroyo (although I'd lvoe to keep him as well) I'd jump at it. Burnett has the chance to be an ace, he hasn't peaked yet. I think Bronson is getting about as good as he's gonna get.

[Ruzious]

This was exactly the kind of thing I was asking you for in my first post. Some kind of quote or proof that he had actually done this and not just speculation. Ok fine, Pete is a prick. :cool:
Well, like I said - it's been all over the Baltimore Sun, the Washington Post, and ESPN radio and tv. How 'bout them O's. I can't imagine Nevin not wanting to play for them.

[MDPatFan]

Nevin killed the deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2115581

I wonder if we can still send Sidney to SD anyway?

[MDPatFan]

Ok, so now what? How about Ponson and Sosa for...some middle reliever.

[VikingFan2k2]

Ok, so now what? How about Ponson and Sosa for...some middle reliever.

Terry Mulholland is available.

[Cubsiah]

Pirates have 2 good pitchers availabe...Kip Wells, Mark Redman.

[The Q]

Pirates have 2 good pitchers availabe...Kip Wells, Mark Redman.

I don't know what's up with Wells. He's got legit enough stuff to be a real #1 starter. Good fastball, sharp curve and an above average change. But something therte just isn't clicking and he's a major underachiever IMO.

[MDPatFan]

I don't know what's up with Wells. He's got legit enough stuff to be a real #1 starter. Good fastball, sharp curve and an above average change. But something therte just isn't clicking and he's a major underachiever IMO.
I'd gladly trade Sir Sid for Wells.

[The Q]

I'd gladly trade Sir Sid for Wells.

I think that goes without saying. ;)

My point is Wells should be a DIFFERENCE MAKER and he's not. He's an underachiever.

[twolvesguy]

The Twins are now officially 'SELLERS' in the final days leading up to the Trading deadline.

Available: Mays, Lohse, Cuddyer, Rivas, Romero, Mulholland, LECROY(PLEASE! :o ), Boone ;) , Jones, Ford.

Oh hell, everyone is available except.... Santana, Silva, Nathan, Crain, Mauer, Morneau, Lariano, and Baker.

[SFO]

The Twins are now officially 'SELLERS' in the final days leading up to the Trading deadline.

Available: Mays, Lohse, Cuddyer, Rivas, Romero, Mulholland, LECROY(PLEASE! :o ), Boone ;) , Jones, Ford.

Oh hell, everyone is available except.... Santana, Silva, Nathan, Crain, Mauer, Morneau, Lariano, and Baker.

Your team is 1/2 out of the wildcard and you think they're sellers? Put down the bong man! :rolleyes:

[twolvesguy]

Your team is 1/2 out of the wildcard and you think they're sellers? Put down the bong man! :rolleyes:

And last week we were 2 games ahead of everyone else in the Wildcard race.

2 weeks ago, we were 4 games ahead.

A month ago, we ........

Do you see where I'm going with this? The Twins have been playing below .500 ball for quite some time now. They simply don't have the hitting to compete for the AAA crown, much less in the show. Time to let the kids take their lumps, and call up some of the players who are ready to do there thing.

We have 2 pitchers in AAA that are already better than our #3, and #4 starter. We also have many others who are legitimate prospects. Some of them(Perkins) are big-time prospects. What we don't have is hitters. Sure, we have some at the AA, and A level. But they're not ready, and won't be for at least another year.

Oh, I forgot to add. Radke is probably available too, although he's a 10-5 player.

[SFO]

I'm sorry, but you simply don't panic when you're 1/2 game out of the wild card.

[The Q]

Twolves, I'm interested in what the Twins plans are with JD Durbin...I thought he would be a contributor this year. Did he get hurt or something?

[uwbadger12000]

And last week we were 2 games ahead of everyone else in the Wildcard race.

2 weeks ago, we were 4 games ahead.

A month ago, we ........

Do you see where I'm going with this? The Twins have been playing below .500 ball for quite some time now. They simply don't have the hitting to compete for the AAA crown, much less in the show. Time to let the kids take their lumps, and call up some of the players who are ready to do there thing.

We have 2 pitchers in AAA that are already better than our #3, and #4 starter. We also have many others who are legitimate prospects. Some of them(Perkins) are big-time prospects. What we don't have is hitters. Sure, we have some at the AA, and A level. But they're not ready, and won't be for at least another year.

Oh, I forgot to add. Radke is probably available too, although he's a 10-5 player.

What????????????????? The Twins sellers now?? Are you kidding?? Like 1 game out of the WC, AND YOU ARE READY TO THROW IN THE TOWEL?? We are one bat away.

You say we have been playing below .500 the past month. True. However, I do not expect us to play like this the rest of the season. We will go on a roll starting sometime soon, I can feel it.

[The Q]

I know you guys need middle infield help, but there's jsut not enough out there. I read before that Toronto would be willing to move Orlando Hudson, that's probably your best option right now. There aren't really any good SSs available at this time.

[twolvesguy]

I know you guys need middle infield help, but there's jsut not enough out there. I read before that Toronto would be willing to move Orlando Hudson, that's probably your best option right now. There aren't really any good SSs available at this time.

What we need are hitters. At this point, we'd take any quality hitter. But ideally, we would like someone with some pop in his bat. A middle of the lineup(4-6 hitter) guy who can knock some runs in, and put some extra base hits up. We are a one-station team. With a guy on 1st, it takes at least 2 more hits to get him in.

UWBadger... You think we only need one more bat to put us over the top? I respectfully disagree. Unless of course that bat is the Babe, or Hank. We need 2 quality hitters. And at least one of them must be of the Sweeney, Soriano ilk. Our best hitter on the team is Joe Mauer, followed by Shannon Stewart. After that it's a big dropoff to Hunter, Morneau(who's struggling to adapt to all the breaking balls he's seeing). But I'll cut the kid some slack since Hunter, Jones have been struggling with the same thing for over 5 years.

Time to strap the helmets on boys. Baseball season is nearing the end, and the pigskins are about to fly.

[twolvesguy]

Twolves, I'm interested in what the Twins plans are with JD Durbin...I thought he would be a contributor this year. Did he get hurt or something?

Durbin is at AAA. He struggled with his control last season, and is trying to regain in the minors. He's still a legit prospect, but he's definately been passed over by others(Liriano, Baker, Perkins, Bowyer). The Twins are stocked with pitchers at all levels. But they're very hesitant about dealing any of them.

One thing that concerns me is that they may be getting desperate. With a stadium drive here in Mpls on the table, they may feel the need to show the public that they're serious about contending and panick and deal a Baker/Liriano. I do not want to see either of these kids dealt for anyone. Not even a Soriano. But, don't be surprised if it happens.

[The Q]

I was impressed with Baker when I saw him in spring training, but his stuff isn't overwhelming, low 90s heat, his stuff is probably a touch below Gavin Floyd's. But still, he came out and rocked the Phils #1 lineup (mostly) and was fairly impressive. But I don't think he's a guy where you're like "DAMN, we GOTTA keep this guy, he's a future ace." He's not really a power pitcher so I think if anyone you'd probably deal him.

Durbin, he's got sick sick stuff. But he's a reliever, so we'd be comparing apples and oranges. But still, I agree with you, the Twins will probably make a big move, they have to. But if they do, I would never doubt Terry Ryan. His track record has done enough to give him the benefit of every doubt.

[twolvesguy]

I was impressed with Baker when I saw him in spring training, but his stuff isn't overwhelming, low 90s heat, his stuff is probably a touch below Gavin Floyd's. But still, he came out and rocked the Phils #1 lineup (mostly) and was fairly impressive. But I don't think he's a guy where you're like "DAMN, we GOTTA keep this guy, he's a future ace." He's not really a power pitcher so I think if anyone you'd probably deal him.

Baker has very good stuff. Not great, but very good. The thing that makes him even better though, is he's years ahead of the game mentally. The kid simply knows how to pitch. You can have a 100 mph. Fastball, but if you don't know how to pitch, you won't be successful. He's been called up to pitch(start) 2 times this season. The 1st, he gave up 5 hits, 2 runs(SO=4;BB=1) in 5 innings against Anaheim. His last start he pitched 7 innings, gave up 5 hits, 2 runs(SO=5;BB=1) and got his 1st ML Victory. He is ready to pitch in the Bigs right now. AND he'll be successful immediately. He's already better than our #4/#5 starters.


Durbin, he's got sick sick stuff. But he's a reliever, so we'd be comparing apples and oranges. But still, I agree with you, the Twins will probably make a big move, they have to. But if they do, I would never doubt Terry Ryan. His track record has done enough to give him the benefit of every doubt.

Durbin is a starter, and he's down at AAA. Ya, he has nasty stuff. A 97 mph. fastball, and a couple other pitches. BUT, he also has a very high opinion of himself, having nicknamed himself..... 'The real Deal'. He doesn't have complete control of his breaking balls yet, and relies too much on his blazing fastball. Well, like I said earlier, when the batter knows the heat is coming, it doesn't matter if it's coming in at 100 mph. They'll catch up to it eventually.

The kid doesn't know how to pitch yet.


Now, our #1 prospect has the complete package and is only 20 years old(I think). Francisco Liriano!! Remember that name. He'll be up in Sept. at the latest. This kid brings it at 97/98 mph. He also has a terrific change, and slider. The kid is playing with the competition at AAA. I wouldn't deal him straight up for Soriano.

[The Q]

I agree with you about Baker. What I was trying to say is that a team is much more likely to move a non-power arm than a power arm. Therefore I think Baker would be more likely to go than someone like Liriano or Durbin.

Second, I know durbin is starting in the minors, but from waht i've read, the Twins plans are to make him a reliever at the major league level, they just want to get him as many innings as possible in the minors. Plenty of teams do this kind of thing, the Giants with David Aardsma for example(before he was traded).

And I know all about Liriano. Game over in the AJP deal right? Everyone knew he had electric stuff then, IIRC the reason he was a "throw in" was because the dude was Nuke LaLoosh with his stuff. But now that he's polished his repotoire, he seems like a legit guy. wouldn't surprise me to see him in the Bigs soon, but the Twins should try to move one of their starters for a bat if they're gonna do that. Joe Mays and Lohse both could start for quite a few major league teams right now, but I don't think I'd want them on a team who's trying to compete right now.

[twolvesguy]

the Twins should try to move one of their starters for a bat if they're gonna do that. Joe Mays and Lohse both could start for quite a few major league teams right now, but I don't think I'd want them on a team who's trying to compete right now.

I think that's what they're desperately trying to do.

Getting rid of Mays/Loshe for a bag of balls would improve the club simpy by moving Baker/Liriano into the rotation. Sure the kids might get roughed up on occasion, but that's already happening with Mays/Loshe anyway. Plus, Mays is making $7 million, and Loshe is at about $2.5 million.

I think you might be rating Durbin a little too high. Sure, he's still a legit prospect, but he's been passed over. In fact, Perkins and Bowyer(97 mph) are already considered much better prospects. We haven't given up on Durbin yet. But if he was dealt, I don't think there'd be too many disappointed Twins fans. Assuming we aquired something quality in return. Liriano is more untouchable than Hunter/Silva/Nathan. Baker is just a step below, and is more ready for the show than Francisco Liriano is.

[The Q]

I don't think I'm overrating Durbin for the simple fact that power arms are always a valuable commodity. Flame throwers are the scouts players, guys that when you go see them they're electric. Also, power bullpen arms are what win championships. Guys like Keith Foulke are the exception, no the rule to good closers. But, I'm not even calling Durbin a closer at this point, but with his power stuff, he should be a dominating 8th inning reliever, and that in itself is very valuable, especially for a small market team like the Twins who keep having to shuffle out their best pitchers (Nathan and Rincon a both won't be around, someone will need to take over Crain's job) so guys like Durbin are huge bargaining chips. Everyoen's after pitching, especially power pitching. That's all I'm saying. Power arms are a very very valuable commodity in this day and age.

[twolvesguy]

I don't think I'm overrating Durbin for the simple fact that power arms are always a valuable commodity. Flame throwers are the scouts players, guys that when you go see them they're electric. Also, power bullpen arms are what win championships. Guys like Keith Foulke are the exception, no the rule to good closers. But, I'm not even calling Durbin a closer at this point, but with his power stuff, he should be a dominating 8th inning reliever, and that in itself is very valuable, especially for a small market team like the Twins who keep having to shuffle out their best pitchers (Nathan and Rincon a both won't be around, someone will need to take over Crain's job) so guys like Durbin are huge bargaining chips. Everyoen's after pitching, especially power pitching. That's all I'm saying. Power arms are a very very valuable commodity in this day and age.

Q,

I hear ya, and I'm not giving Durbin enough credit simply because of the other quality pitchers the Twins have in their system. They really do have some big-time prospects that are VERY close to being ready. Durbin hasn't really fallen, it's just that others have risen.

Glen Perkins for one. He was drafted last year in the 1st round. A college pitcher(southpaw) out of the U of M. Very polished. Throws in the low/mid 90's, with excellent control, and similar to Baker in that he's ahead of schedule mentally. He's in AA ball now after less that a year in the minors and it wouldn't surprise anyone if he made it to the bigs sometime next year. Bowyer is another who's made a fast rise through the system.

Keeping their pitching prospects is one of the main reasons the Twins have been able to remain successful while having a low team salary. If you look at their rotation, you'll see that they don't skimp when it comes to their starting pitchers. (Radke=$9 mil.;Mays=$7 mil;Santana=$4.5 mil. and rising;Silva=$3 mil. and rising too). They have to spend money somewhere, and they choose to spend it on starting pitching. Unfortunately, the bats haven't responded this year, and I'm not just talking about the youngsters. Hunter/Jones have continued to disappoint. Never have I seen 2 hitters with such poor plate discipline. We may have to surrender some of our pitching depth to aquire a legit bat or 2, because the pitchers have got to be getting frustrated.

[UK_Niners_fan]

Well according to a little blurb on my fantasy team page, the Twins apparently expressed interest in Alfonso Soriano. I would've thought he'd be a bit pricey for them.

[WeatherMike]

Interesting speculation, WM. The only thing I'll say is that any deal with TB usually involves giving up a player who's WAY more valuable than what you get back. They always seem to hold out for the ludicrous. (Like Hanley for Baez.) and every now and then they find an owner/GM who's so desparate they will deal a Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. My perspective: be afraid of who you guys might be giving up for Lugo or Baez. But right now, TB is one of the only teams with players willing to deal. And those two guys are pretty decent pickups if they come your way.
Baseball Prospectus is reporting that the Nationals have a deal in place to acquire Julio Lugo, but can't work out the finances. Way to go, Dud Stealing!

Give us even Pokey Reese, please!

[uwbadger12000]

Bret Boone could be released if he continues to suck.

[twolvesguy]

Well according to a little blurb on my fantasy team page, the Twins apparently expressed interest in Alfonso Soriano. I would've thought he'd be a bit pricey for them.

Not necessarily.

What's Soriano making right now? $7 mil? $8 mil.? I know he's eligible for arbitration one final year this offseason, and then he'll be a FA after next season.

Twins Salaries this year:
Brad Radke $9 million.
Tori Hunter $8 million.(scheduled to make over $10 million next season).
Joe Mays $7 million.
S.Stewart $6 million.
J.Jones $6 million.
Y.Santana $4.5 million.

I know Hunter is the sacred cow here in Twinsville, but I'd give him up in a heartbeat for Soriano. My point is, the Twins will spend money on the right players. They just can't afford to make a $10 million mistake and stay competitive. Owner Carl Pohlad has even given his blessing on adding a big bat and big salary. Believe me, Carl has the money to spend if he chooses. He's the richest owner in all of baseball.

The real issue for the Twins is what to give for a player of Soriano's caliber. They're not dealing Liriano for anyone. Baker is probably in the same boat. But that's what most other teams have been asking for.


The Twins payroll is about $58 million for the entire team.

[UK_Niners_fan]

Not necessarily.

What's Soriano making right now? $7 mil? $8 mil.? I know he's eligible for arbitration one final year this offseason, and then he'll be a FA after next season.

Twins Salaries this year:
Brad Radke $9 million.
Tori Hunter $8 million.(scheduled to make over $10 million next season).
Joe Mays $7 million.
S.Stewart $6 million.
J.Jones $6 million.
Y.Santana $4.5 million.

I know Hunter is the sacred cow here in Twinsville, but I'd give him up in a heartbeat for Soriano. My point is, the Twins will spend money on the right players. They just can't afford to make a $10 million mistake and stay competitive. Owner Carl Pohlad has even given his blessing on adding a big bat and big salary. Believe me, Carl has the money to spend if he chooses. He's the richest owner in all of baseball.

The real issue for the Twins is what to give for a player of Soriano's caliber. They're not dealing Liriano for anyone. Baker is probably in the same boat. But that's what most other teams have been asking for.


The Twins payroll is about $58 million for the entire team.

It seems as though their FO is putting a significant asking price for Soriano, which is sensible IMO as they are still in the race (although for how much longer I'm not sure given their appalling pitching) and shouldn't just offload him for the sake of it. I think they may try and see if anyone is desperate enough to offer something a bit outlandish (maybe not quite in the V. Zambrano for Kazmir league, but not far away from it), and if not, then keep him till the end of the season. Apparently the Astros, Yankees and especially the Mets have been sniffing around as well, with the latter already having had discussions with Texas. But John Hart, the GM, wanted their top prospect Milledge, OF Mike Cameron, and a couple other guys for Soriano, which is pretty extortionate.

[The Q]

Twolves,

I realize those other guys are rising, I LOVE Perkins and I already said I was impressed with Baker. I was just wondering how Durbin was doing cause he's one of my favorite minor leaguers (how can you not love a future closer who calls himself "the Real Deal"?)

The other thing I was saying is that a team like the Twins really can't afford to be dealing too many power arms because once they're gone, they're too pricey to be coming back.

I really hope the Twins do go get a big bat. I'm really not sure who they can get, but really IMO the real help has to come internally, mainly I'm looking at Morneau and one of my favorite Twins Mike Cuddyer. If those 2 can turn it on, and the the Twins can add either a strong bat at 2nd or 3B, they can take the WC, and probably have jsut as good a shot as anyone at getting to the WS.

[twolvesguy]

Q,

Just found out that Durbin is done for the year. He's had shoulder problems all season, and this may have contributed to his recent control problems as this wasn't an issue before.

Cuddyer is really a key player for the Twins. At one time he was rated the #1 Twins prospect, and one of the top prospects in all of baseball. A former high #1 pick, he was expected to provide solid power numbers to lineup that was counting on him. I haven't given up on him yet, but he needs to start producing like he's capable of. I wonder if moving him around so often(2b, 3b, RF, 1B) has affected his hitting?

Anyways....Early indications that Justin Morneau is breaking out of his hitting slump. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[Hurricane]

It seems as though their FO is putting a significant asking price for Soriano, which is sensible IMO as they are still in the race (although for how much longer I'm not sure given their appalling pitching) and shouldn't just offload him for the sake of it. I think they may try and see if anyone is desperate enough to offer something a bit outlandish (maybe not quite in the V. Zambrano for Kazmir league, but not far away from it), and if not, then keep him till the end of the season. Apparently the Astros, Yankees and especially the Mets have been sniffing around as well, with the latter already having had discussions with Texas. But John Hart, the GM, wanted their top prospect Milledge, OF Mike Cameron, and a couple other guys for Soriano, which is pretty extortionate.
I think the Rangers expect Kinsler to come in and make an impact. I think they will make the best deal they can for Soriano right now.

Would the Twins give up Liriano?

Actually, you know, this is EXACTLY the kind of trade Billy Beane would make. I could see Oakland adding him.

[twolvesguy]

Would the Twins give up Liriano?

I can almost guarantee they wouldn't deal Liriano for Soriano even straight up. The Twins view this kid as the next Santana, only he's much further along in his progress than Santana was at the same age.

I think there are very few Major Leaguers that the Twins would give up Liriano for, and before you say I'm being rediculous, you need to realize that Salaries play a HUGE role in this statement. Liriano is nearly ready to step into a ML rotation and perform. He'll likely face some initial growing pains, but they will not last long. He's going to be a good one, and he's going to come very cheap over the next 5 years. This is how the Twins are able to compete with the Big Dogs in Baseball.

[PsychoViking]

The Twins refuse to deal Baker, Liriano, Perkins, or pretty much any of their top prospects for a rent-a-player, which is what most traded guys are.

I expect they would easily part ways with Mays, Lohse, Romero, etc to get him IF Texas covered part of his salary. The Twins aren't going to pay a 2nd baseman who doesn't fit in with their pitching/defense mentality a ton of money and from what I've read Soriano has defensive issues.

I'd love to see the Twins get Soriano but I don't know that they can put a package together that will be enough to get him. Mays could go given his large salary to offset Soriano's but I'm not sure if he is enough. Mays has pitched above expectations this year but is not the guy they thought he would be when signing him to a big deal.

Durbin is no longer a top prosect. He should be a good MLB player by now and he is continually stuck in the minors, meanwhile he is also being passed up by players who actually make progress.

Hopefully the Twins rotation will be:

Santana
Silva
Perkins
Baker
Liriano

in <2 years. That would be fantastic. Radke is showing signs of age and is really not worth his salary anymore. Lohse is a turd, always has been.

[twolvesguy]

I expect they would easily part ways with Mays, Lohse, Romero, etc to get him IF Texas covered part of his salary.

GUARANTEED!!, if Texas was willing to give us Soriano for Mays/Lohse/Romero, the Twins would find a way to pay Soriano his entire salary. In fact, the players we'd be sending to Texas make more combined than Soriano does anyways.


Durbin is no longer a top prosect. He should be a good MLB player by now and he is continually stuck in the minors, meanwhile he is also being passed up by players who actually make progress.

Durbin is hurt, and out for the rest of the season.

Hopefully the Twins rotation will be:

Santana
Silva
Perkins
Baker
Liriano

in <2 years. That would be fantastic.

Agreed. that's the assumed future rotation. And a very good one I might add. Now, if they could only find some bats.

[Fandango]

What do you guys think Soriano is going to get contract-wise after this season is over?

I would love to have him on the Twins. True, his D isn't great, but I really don't care that much at this point. We need another bat in the line-up and he is one of the premier hitters in the league. He would upgrade our line-up immediately. To get a guy like this I would give up Perkins (I had heard rumors earlier in the year that he was available) and Romero.

Or we could go buck wild and try to trade for Blaylock or Texeira...hey a guy can dream can't he!!

[TxFootballFan]

man the Rangers would want half the organization for either one of those guys

[The Q]

New Sox rumor is they've essentially dropped out of the Burnett running because they have 3 main needs now:

-A starter- I would expect someone like Victor Zambrano now mroe than AJ Burnett.

-A reliever- Although I'd rather try all the kids out first. Middle guys can be had in august.

-An OF- because of Nixon's injury they need a stop gap guy. Also, don't be surpsrised if the Sox work out a deal with the Braves so they can send Stern down the minors. They're gonna need to add another bat(god damn you Jay Payton) for the stretch run (probably a right) and then work around them when Nixon gets back.

[PurplePride84]

(how can you not love a future closer who calls himself "the Real Deal"?)


I really hope the Twins do go get a big bat. I'm really not sure who they can get, but really IMO the real help has to come internally, mainly I'm looking at Morneau and one of my favorite Twins Mike Cuddyer. If those 2 can turn it on, and the the Twins can add either a strong bat at 2nd or 3B, they can take the WC, and probably have jsut as good a shot as anyone at getting to the WS.

I'm a big Durbin guy myself. Peter Gammons recently said that J.D's changeup and breaking ball were major-league quality, but throwing his fastball for strikes is what keeps him from breaking through. Too bad with the injury troubles, too.

As far as aqcuiring a bat, you're dead on. With the Twins' top 3 starters (Radke, assuming he pitches like he's capable of, along with Santana and Silva) the Twins would be a very dangerous opponent in any playoff series, contingent on the improvement of the offense, most likely through trade.

[Anointed One]

Trade Rumor:

Red Sox receive: Huff/Cameron

Mets receive: Baez/M.Ramirez

Devil Rays receive: 4 top prospects (what else)

This will make the Met's a better club and it doesn't hurt the Red Sox to bad since they will improve greatly on the defensive side of the ball... But is it good to have Bellhorn (when he returns) and Cameron in the same lineup? They are 2 of the highest Strikeout artist in the league...

[dasher]

Cameron hasn't lived up to his name...

To think the Red Sox can make it to another series without Manny blows my mind... granted.. Huff is good... but they , unlike the yankees, have prospects that could be dealt

[Niner Empire]

hunter tears a tendon in his ankle, time to make a move or forget the season for the twinkies.

[Burt Harbinson]

What kind of contract does both Cameron and Huff hold? I know Manny was making big time bucks and wasn't he close to the end of his contract? I do like Huff, not a fan of Cameron's. Financialy, where might that put the Red Sox heading into next season?

[Hurricane]

What kind of contract does both Cameron and Huff hold? I know Manny was making big time bucks and wasn't he close to the end of his contract? I do like Huff, not a fan of Cameron's. Financialy, where might that put the Red Sox heading into next season?
Huff: $5mil
Cameron: $7 mil

If the Sox can keep Anibel Sanchez, and don't have to pony up cash, the Sox should JUMP at Manny and Shoppach for Cameron and Huff.

[Genus49]

Trade Rumor:

Red Sox receive: Huff/Cameron

Mets receive: Baez/M.Ramirez

Devil Rays receive: 4 top prospects (what else)

This will make the Met's a better club and it doesn't hurt the Red Sox to bad since they will improve greatly on the defensive side of the ball... But is it good to have Bellhorn (when he returns) and Cameron in the same lineup? They are 2 of the highest Strikeout artist in the league...

This is a pathetic deal for the Sox. One of those top prospects is Anibal Sanchez, who's playing very well right now. He has a very high ceiling and should NOT be traded...at least not for two outfielders who put together may not match Manny's hr/rbi production.

Mets run away in this trade, I cannot believe Theo is stupid enough to make this deal.

And yes I'm aware the stipulation is that the Mets pickup all of Mannys' deal.

I don't think I'd even like the trade just Manny and Shoppach for Huff and Cameron...I'd certainly be very upset if it also includes Sanchez.

[Genus49]

Cameron hasn't lived up to his name...

To think the Red Sox can make it to another series without Manny blows my mind... granted.. Huff is good... but they , unlike the yankees, have prospects that could be dealt

That's true the sox finally have some prospects worth talking about but I think the top 5 guys should not be touched:
Papelbon, Ramirez, Lester, Pedroia and Sanchez

if we hold onto those guys in a few years we'll have a very good starting rotation at a VERY cheap price.

[TheSeyMonsta]

That's true the sox finally have some prospects worth talking about but I think the top 5 guys should not be touched:
Papelbon, Ramirez, Lester, Pedroia and Sanchez

if we hold onto those guys in a few years we'll have a very good starting rotation at a VERY cheap price.

I agree they won the series last year. Lets go with what we have unless it doesent cost numerous prospects. Trade Manny in the offseason for fair market value or at least close.

Manny and Youkalis for Wright. :D

[Anointed One]

Offense isn't the problem for the Redsox... I think they would still be one of the highest scoring teams in the league without Manny... Fact is, they need some defense - especially in the OF...

[UK_Niners_fan]

Well FOX just reported that Randy Winn has been scratched from the Mariners lineup for their game. Apparently it is for a legitimate (ie, non-trade) reason, according to the M's, but definitely seems like a trade could be happening there.

[jimthefin]

That's true the sox finally have some prospects worth talking about but I think the top 5 guys should not be touched:
Papelbon, Ramirez, Lester, Pedroia and Sanchez

if we hold onto those guys in a few years we'll have a very good starting rotation at a VERY cheap price.

You have no idea how any of them will pitch in the Big's.

The chances of them all turning out to be good are practically NIL.

[Dad 818]

You have no idea how any of them will pitch in the Big's.

The chances of them all turning out to be good are practically NIL.

Sounds like the current Yankee rotation. :p :D

[Niner Empire]

nothing to get excited about, torrealba and foppert for winn.

[The Q]

nothing to get excited about, torrealba and foppert for winn.

BUT...Jason Schmidt is OFFICIALLY off the block.

[WeatherMike]

Jose Cruz, Jr. to the Red Sox.

This stinks. He is the outfielder Bowden should have went after, not Preston Wilson.

[The Q]

Jose Cruz, Jr. to the Red Sox.

This stinks. He is the outfielder Bowden should have went after, not Preston Wilson.

What?

Cruz is hitting like .213 and Wilson has FAR more power.

[UK_Niners_fan]

BUT...Jason Schmidt is OFFICIALLY off the block.

As it should be. Seems to me that the Giants are building for a run next season with a (fingers crossed) healthy Barry Bonds. The priority in the offseason, IMO, has to be to get rid of the old, crappy guys (Grissom, Tucker, Snow, Alfonso Rueter, Tomko etc), keep the old useful guys (Bonds, Vizquel, Alou, Schmidt and Benitez), and then try and find some younger guys, like Randy Winn, or some prospects, to come fill in the remaining spots. Pitching is an essential need and if the Giants could land a good FA starter then that would he helpful. If Bonds was healthy this season, the Giants would've won the NL West at a canter given how atrociously bad it is, and no team in the division is going to make an impact addition on the scale of the return of a healthy Bonds (again, fingers crossed on that!).

[WeatherMike]

What?

Cruz is hitting like .213 and Wilson has FAR more power.
Cruz has more power. Wilson's numbers are exaggerated because of Coors. He is a defensive mess, especially in center, and has knees of jelly. Cruz is of Gold Glove-caliber, which under any GM with sense would be the first priority.

[uwbadger12000]

I want the Twins to get Soriano, but not give up tooooo much.

[The Q]

Cruz has more power. Wilson's numbers are exaggerated because of Coors. He is a defensive mess, especially in center, and has knees of jelly. Cruz is of Gold Glove-caliber, which under any GM with sense would be the first priority.

He is a gold glove RIGHT FIELDER. And Wilson has hit 35-40 HRs before. Cruz can't even sniff that. Neither one are great defensive CFs. Wilson has more range though.

[WeatherMike]

Wilson played in the most extreme hitter's park in the majors. He is now playing in the most extreme pitcher's park in the majors. His power is greatly minimized. He also doesn't walk. Wilson's range is just terrible. He routinely lets catchable balls go past him. Cruz has great range wherever you put him.

[TxFootballFan]

I love Chieto but to say he has a ton of power is nuts.

[WeatherMike]

Marlins get Ron Villone for two minor leaguers. Darn.

Meanwhile, Leather Pants sits on his hands and declares that he's already made the big trade-- Preston "Jelly Knees" Wilson. :rolleyes:

[WeatherMike]

Braves pick up Kyle Farnsworth.

Good work, Jim Bowden!

[WeatherMike]

Cubs get Matt Lawton.

Diamondbacks get Buddy Groom.

Cristian Guzman will lead us to the promised land!

[uwbadger12000]

I am disspapointed that the Twins didn't do anything.

[The Q]

I am disspapointed that the Twins didn't do anything.

That's because Twolves was right on the money. The sticking poitn of Soriano coming to Minny was Francisco Liriano.

[Niner Empire]

BUT...Jason Schmidt is OFFICIALLY off the block.

thankfully

[Ruzious]

Braves pick up Kyle Farnsworth.

Good work, Jim Bowden!
Jim Bowden had nothing to trade. He has a barren farm system and nobody expendible on the major league roster that has value.

Great move by the Braves. It'll be interesting to see who ends up as the Braves' closer.

I hadn't heard the Cubs got Lawton. He's a very underrated player and should really help them.

[The Q]

As it should be. Seems to me that the Giants are building for a run next season with a (fingers crossed) healthy Barry Bonds. The priority in the offseason, IMO, has to be to get rid of the old, crappy guys (Grissom, Tucker, Snow, Alfonso Rueter, Tomko etc), keep the old useful guys (Bonds, Vizquel, Alou, Schmidt and Benitez), and then try and find some younger guys, like Randy Winn, or some prospects, to come fill in the remaining spots. Pitching is an essential need and if the Giants could land a good FA starter then that would he helpful. If Bonds was healthy this season, the Giants would've won the NL West at a canter given how atrociously bad it is, and no team in the division is going to make an impact addition on the scale of the return of a healthy Bonds (again, fingers crossed on that!).

You do realize how dumb Sabean looks if Bonds retires right? Trading his only good young pitchers for a rent a player (Winn) and a middle reliever (you don't trade top level prospects for relievers). Schmidt could've gotten you a truckload of rebuilding tools, instead you could get no Bonds and not even contend next year with Schmidt anyway.

[Niner Empire]

You do realize how dumb Sabean looks if Bonds retires right? Trading his only good young pitchers for a rent a player (Winn) and a middle reliever (you don't trade top level prospects for relievers). Schmidt could've gotten you a truckload of rebuilding tools, instead you could get no Bonds and not even contend next year with Schmidt anyway.


the giants best young pitcher is matt cain, he should be up soon. winn isnt a rent a player, he'll also be around next year. giants havent had a pitcher like schmidt since gaylord perry, u dont trade a guy like that even a in a crappy year. i expect him to be a legit ace again next year. even if they dont contend next year they can still trade schmidt when his value is higher.

[The Q]

the giants best young pitcher is matt cain, he should be up soon. winn isnt a rent a player, he'll also be around next year. giants havent had a pitcher like schmidt since gaylord perry, u dont trade a guy like that even a in a crappy year. i expect him to be a legit ace again next year. even if they dont contend next year they can still trade schmidt when his value is higher.

Winn is a FA to be. So there are no guarantees. And for a team that's so monetarily starved, trading away good young cheap pitchers who could make an impact next year is not the best move.

[Niner Empire]

Winn is a FA to be. So there are no guarantees. And for a team that's so monetarily starved, trading away good young cheap pitchers who could make an impact next year is not the best move.

winn has team option and player option for next year. he'll be a giant next year.

[UK_Niners_fan]

You do realize how dumb Sabean looks if Bonds retires right? Trading his only good young pitchers for a rent a player (Winn) and a middle reliever (you don't trade top level prospects for relievers). Schmidt could've gotten you a truckload of rebuilding tools, instead you could get no Bonds and not even contend next year with Schmidt anyway.

Trading Schmidt this year when his value was lowest would not have been a good move. Quietly however he has really improved of late and his overall numbers next year should be pretty good. The Hawkins trade was really dumb, obviously, and the Winn trade was a bit unnecessary but not too terrible. Foppert's star has definitely waned since his TJ, and as NE said, Cain is the big pitching prospect we have, and also Brad Hennessey looks like he could be a good option for next year as well as he's had some excellent outings. So we're not starved of young pitching by any means (although I'm increasingly sceptical of the ability of Dave Righetti to get the best out of it, our pitching should not have been THIS bad this season), but yes we are lessening our options and increasing the chances of having to spend money on it in the future. Whenever Bonds retires, whether its this year or next year or whatever, the Giants are probably going to suck for a couple years while making that transition. All the indications are that he will be back for next year, although with an enigma like Bonds you never know. As long as Sabean does not trade the entire farm then that's ok, and I definitely don't want to see any more trades like the Hawkins trade because that was totally inexcusable. That said, there does seem to be an alarming tendancy for Sabean to give up on young pitchers a bit too early, what with Nathan's success for the Twins and Jerome Williams' improvements in Chicago. I also hope this trade won't mean that Jason Ellison loses lots of playing time because we need to see if he is worth keeping around.

Maybe the Hawkins deal has lowered my expectations so much that I'm blind to this not being a good trade. We'll see. I'm a little annoyed they weren't able to offload some of the old, crappy guys. Grissom, Snow, Tucker, Alfonso, Tomko, Rueter and so on....I don't want to see any of these guys on next years roster.

[The Q]

And most of those gusy won't be. I actually think if Bonds comes back and is his normal self next year, that the Hawkins move will be useful, although I still wouldn't have given up 2 legit prospects for him, he could be your nail it down 8th inning guy and wth Walker in the 7th you have a similar set to the 2002 team with Fe Rod, Worrell and Nen all right in a row.

Not bad for a team who could have some questionable pitching next year.

[twolvesguy]

IMO, Bonds sitting out this entire year is a clear indication that he's been on the juice.

[Niner Empire]

IMO, Bonds sitting out this entire year is a clear indication that he's been on the juice.


too bad he already got tested, there goes your theory.

[bucsfan4life]

too bad he already got tested, there goes your theory.
too bad there's ways around it so the theory is still possible, or there are drugs that, as of now, don't show up in there tests

[Niner Empire]

too bad there's ways around it so the theory is still possible, or there are drugs that, as of now, don't show up in there tests


theres ways around it so u still say guilty. wow ralphy tested positive and everybody is defending him. wow what a werid world

[WeatherMike]

Jim Bowden had nothing to trade. He has a barren farm system and nobody expendible on the major league roster that has value.

Great move by the Braves. It'll be interesting to see who ends up as the Braves' closer.

I hadn't heard the Cubs got Lawton. He's a very underrated player and should really help them.
Not true at all. There are several guys they could have traded for even another reliever like Villone. With the way the bullpen has been taxed, it would have helped a lot.

Heck, he might very well have been able to trade the skeletal remains of Preston Wilson to the Cubs. I can't stand that guy's game.

[bucsfan4life]

theres ways around it so u still say guilty. wow ralphy tested positive and everybody is defending him. wow what a werid world
i still feel bonds was on steriod a few years ago but has been off the past 2 seasons or whatever but feel the reason he is out is because he really is hurt